8mm Forum: "Little Black Sambo" Super 8 color sound?

This is topic "Little Black Sambo" Super 8 color sound? in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

To visit this topic, use this URL:
https://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=006772

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 07, 2012, 12:53 PM:

I was not only surprised to find on super 8 color sound, but also to win in bidding for this I would assume truly rare super 8 release.

"Little Black Sambo" was an Ub Iwerks animated film, originally released in Cinecolor. I had heard of CInecolor standard 8mm prints of this (and those alone are rarer than hens teeth and quite expensive when they come up for auction) ...

But this print was a surprise! Being that it is an LPP print, (as ther auction stated, and the screenshots appear to have perfect unfaded color), it has to be printed around 1982 or later ...

... any ideas as to who released this print folks?

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 07, 2012, 01:07 PM:

Osi, this is exactly what I am waiting now (Thread: Waiting for my large order.... ).

There are 30+ reels with unsusual titles now on their way to my place. They were reported majority to be on low fade stock too.

Sometimes there is always a surprise in this 8mm scene. We don't really know what has been relased and who has released them...

Please wait for my next report....

Posted by Simon McConway (Member # 219) on January 07, 2012, 05:24 PM:

I have "Sambo's Easter Eggs" for sale on Super 8 colour sound. It's an excellent print (200') which has outstanding colour. I got it from Derann, on their last ever day of trading. No idea who released it though. smcconway @ hotmail. com if interested.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 08, 2012, 08:55 AM:

Hmmm, I wonder if "Sambo's Easter Eggs" was part of the MGM cartoon serie of "Sambo" cartoons from the late 30's, as Ub Iwerks only made that one "Little Black Sambo" cartoon. The cartoon was based upon the story of Sambo beating a tiger.

That reminds me, there used to be a lot of resturants all over the place called "Sambo's" (it was a pancake resturant), and they had a large painting opn the wall of the resturant, inside, which chronicled the story of "Sambo". Perhaps that's why they aren't around anymore?

Of course, the story and even showing it these days would be deemed, shall we say, "politically incorrect". To be honest, I wanted the cartoon just because any cartoon that is blacklisted and not seen, just makes me want it that much more. That's pretty much the case with my print of "Coal Black and De Sebben Dwarves"

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 08, 2012, 10:48 AM:

I remember eating at Sambos as a kid. It's funny how then we didn't think anything of the political implications...just a nice hot stack of pancakes.

BTW...I have a short 8mm silent reel of a similar character called Bosco. The film is dried out and twisted...can't run it. Is there anything I can do to the film to straighten it out?

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 08, 2012, 07:33 PM:

Janice, I think your right, the MGM cartoons were "Bosko" but these cartoons were a realistic character, like the black hunter in the Warner Brothers "Inki and the Mynah bird" cartoons, (at least in design).

Yes ... so many of the things I remember from childhood. All gone now. (sniff)

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 08, 2012, 08:08 PM:

quote:
like the black hunter in the Warner Brothers "Inki and the Mynah bird" cartoons,

Osi, the correct spelling for that title is "Inky & The Myna Bird"...and for sure that title is in my next coming lot.

So how rare is this title....? (I start to nervous to receive my large order... [Razz]

)

Posted by Anthony Buhay (Member # 2874) on January 09, 2012, 02:04 AM:

Janice, maybe some vitafilm??? they claim that it brings the flexibility of your film back?? maybe try that? thats just my thought.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 09, 2012, 12:49 PM:

Winbert ...

Regarding rarity, are you speaking of the "Inky" cartoon or the "Sambo" cartoon?

"Sambo" I cfan easily say is an extreme rarity, and no one has surfaced yet to reply as to who released it. I'm going to take a stab and say, perhaps, "Blackhawk" in the 80's phase of special releases? Blackhawk released many of the Ub Iwerks animated films from the 30's, along with many of the Van Buren's, (The Felix the cat color sound films, for instance), so Blackhawk is my guess.
\
Regarding "Inky", I really don't know on that one. The pre 1949 Warners cartoons were released by a number of different studio's; everyone from Niles to, I believe, Thunderbird films. I know Red Fox released some great quality titles, (as well as some terrible quality titles, like "A Tale of Two Kitties" YEESH! Read my review on that one!) ...

... and some were released by those super 8 companies that continued to release up into the early 90's in the US. I really can't say how rare.

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 09, 2012, 10:04 PM:

Blackhawk released UB Iwerks in 16mm and Super 8.
First on Eastman, then low fade SP and later on LPP.

Prior to these, Castle released 16mm UB Iwerks.
With the exception of 16mm B&W prints of "Sambo."
There is not any early reference to 16mm color prints of this title.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 10, 2012, 12:42 PM:

Micheal ...

I have no idea as to what kind of film stock this was, but many years ago on ebay, someone auctioned off a color 16MM print of "Little Black Sambo", all I remember is that the sound was optical and it has a bluish optical track and the color was very good.

I don't know what stock it was, but at least I know that there was at least one print on 16MM, but it must be quite rare.

By the way, on the auction, it stated that ...

" it is in a plain white box has a castle films and select films logo "

Was "Select Films" a company in the 80's (due to the LPP film stock) or 90's, or, is it an ancient super/standard/16MM film company of yesteryears?

... but being that it has the "Castle Films" logo, it can't be Blackhawk, as Blackhawk would have taken off the Castle Films logo, do to obvious copyright infringement.

Come to think of it, I also have a very rare super 8 color sound print of "Baloonland" (a.k.a. Pincushion Man), also an Ub Iwerks release, and I'm wondering if the same company rescued that film from the past?

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 10, 2012, 09:36 PM:

The film stock that you referred to in the auction was: Cinecolor.

Cinecolor is shiny on both sides of the film, as also found in LPP stock. The Cinecolor process is very unique. People may disagree, but the color is very good.
Castle offered the Ub Iwerks Comi Color cartoons as true Cinecolor from '42-'51.
The sprocket side is orange and the track side is blue.
Check this link for a brief description and picts:Robbies Reels 1940

I have 16mm Cinecolor prints of: The Headless Horseman, Sinbad the Sailor and Mary's Little Lamb.
These were printed late and around '47.

Phil Johnson has a very nice Castle Film advertisement of these Ub Iwerks P.A. Powers Comi Color cartoons on his website.

Phil does not permit his web page to be posted on other websites. Instead search for: 8mm16mmfilmscollectibles.com

My mistake about "Sambo." I was thinking of The Brave Tin Soldier that was not offered in Cinecolor but solely as a B&W Castle edition.
In the 70's, Blackhawk eventually offered color prints of Brave Tin Soldier and other Ub Iwerks Cinecolor titles.
Today these color copies are either faded Eastman, and SP.
Some of these titles may be found on L.P.P. Keep in mind that L.P.P came into being around 1982.

The Select Film Library sold and rented 8 and 16 mil. and to my understanding, they had their own negs.

The Castle Film inventory was also available to purchase through Select Films.

I recall some solo Stan Laurel, and Charley Chase silent comedies that were available through Select, and not sold by Blackhawk.

It was a joy to walk into Select Films. They were located in the Willoughby/Peerless Camera stores in Manhattan - N.Y.C.

Sifting through racks and bins of silent films on a Saturday afternoon was a dream.
The sound films were locked behind glass cases and some 16mm reels were chained together.

I believe that Select Films were gone by the late '70's.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 11, 2012, 01:14 PM:

THanks for that info, Micheal, I agree with you on "Cinecolor", which did look fantastic and still does. I have quite a few of these original standard 8mm Castle film releases of the Ub Iwerks cartoons, (Baloonland among them), and they still maintain thier perfect hues after almost 60 or so years!.

I have two shortened version of these Castle film releases on double sprocket 16MM, and the color is perfect as well!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 11, 2012, 05:53 PM:

UPDATE!!!

Mystery solved!

This was released by "Hollywood Films", as it has thier logo on the beginning. However, I am rather miffed m(well, pissed) as the print is not LPP but Eastman 11 safety stock, not LPP, so I've contacted the seller, and I will wait to hear back from him before I mention his name on the forum, as I would like to keep it, but I do feel at lest a partial refund is in order, as I would not have bid it up as high as I did if the auction did not clearly say "LPP".

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on January 11, 2012, 09:03 PM:

Osi,

I believe that there is not any such thing as an Eastman 11 stock in being a low fade.
Those 11 markings are typical of Eastman stock.

Is there a shiny coating on both sides of the film?

Otherwise,If one side is flat in appearance - emulsion,
and the other is shiny,- the base, it is then an Eastman stock film.
If the emulsion side appears with a raised surface on the titles, it's also a giveaway.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on January 12, 2012, 12:50 PM:

I will have to peruse the film for "shininess", but I can assure you, it is most definitely "eastman 11 safety stock".

I wonder if someone might have printed a "Hollywood Films" negative. The beginning "Hollywood Films" logo, (by the way, one of the better looking logos to be sure! Very classy looking) shows as excessive amount of wear, in comparison to the actual cartoon, which has that beatiful moving into a close-up Castle Films logo, the original one, "in living color".

A slight note: I have noticed that many a "Hollywood Films" print tended to be printed on the slightly "light" side. I noticed this on my "Hollywood Films" copy of "Magical Mystery Tour" as well as other "Hollywood Films" releases.

By the way, thanX for the e-mail, Micheal.

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 12, 2012, 12:55 PM:

Osi just read the following post, I have just received my large film order....!

I am writing now..

Posted by Steve Carter (Member # 4821) on July 17, 2015, 04:58 AM:

Castle Films LBS,colour sound...
LBS Castle Films

Posted by Brad Kimball (Member # 5) on July 18, 2015, 03:43 PM:

I lived in Bergen County, NJ as a teen and remember every so often going into Manhattan with either friends or family and shopping the Select Film Library shelves. It was being in the greatest menagerie a collector could ever imagine. Only got to spend less than 30 minutes each visit, but could have spent hours browsing.

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2