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Topic: PLEASE WILL THE LAST PROJECTIONIST TURN OFF THE LIGHTS
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted June 23, 2012 06:48 PM
It's a sad fact of life Desmond that nothing stays the same,along
with technology moving the rate it is,this new fad of dvd in
cinemas will be superseded by something else that can make
even more money for the suits in tinseltown.What they don't
realise,or don't want to,is the mystique of moving pictures and
the magic that is created,or used to be,by the skills of the
projectionist and his team.I know in my own trade how skills
have been devalued or lost through so called "modernisation"
They have lost the knowledge that the ancient races had on
how to make proper concrete,the Romans made concrete that
has lasted for millenia,whereas modern concrete lasts but a
couple of hundred years at best."Damascus steel" was made
in the Middle East from 1100 to 1750,but they lost the
technology,this was a highly tempered but flexible steel for
sworsds etc that could cut through stone and inferior metals.
The same thing is happening now,new techno,somehow is seen to be better than what you had so junk it.All those beautiful
projectors that will be destroyed and the men who used them
chucked onto the scrapheap of life.In less than fifty years the
public will have forgotten film ever existed.
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David M. Ballew
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 113
From: Burbank, CA USA
Registered: Nov 2009
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posted June 24, 2012 04:13 AM
Although I respect every opinion I've read here, I have to say that for me, the play's still the thing. Not the storage medium, not the projection format.
I am a huge movie buff, but like most every casual moviegoer, I go to the movies looking for an interesting or amusing story told clearly and creatively. I'm also looking for compelling personalities: charismatic actors and actresses playing well-written and stimulating characters.
Although I am well aware of technical and aesthetic nuances in the direction, the photography, the music, the editing, and the various mise en scène elements of a film, to me the joy of cinema lies in having my mind and my heart engaged by a rewarding narrative, be it fictional or factual, and by people who speak to our shared humanity.
I will add that I'm the biggest film geek I personally know. I've collected Standard 8, Super 8, and 16mm over the years, and I worked as a projectionist in several fine multiplexes during my college days. As some of you know, humble Standard 8 silent still holds a special place in my heart.
But we must surely concede that digital projection, for all its perceived faults, has all but eliminated bob and weave, tramlines, reel-change cue marks, emulsion blotches and dust. And even the greatest film purist here must surely recognize harsh economic reality: not many cinemas can justify sequestering an employee in the projection booth in this era of advanced automation, when there is so much to be done in concessions and on the floor.
Last of all, let us remember that one reason film projection required such intensive training and professional commitment in decades past was because there was an overriding safety issue. In the days of nitrate film, an incompetent person in a projection room could very well mean fiery disaster for a theater, and injury or death for its patrons. Happily, all this is now a thing of the past.
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 24, 2012 01:34 PM
quote:
Everyone is a criminal now?
As far as the studios are concerned, yes.
quote:
The hard drive for a feature delivered to a cinema has an inbuilt knowledge of its showing location and the date period of its licence to be shown.
Again, absolutely not true. The hard drive that contains the files for the movie are exactly the same between every theater running the same version (language) of the film around the world. It is only the decryption key that is specific to each server for each auditorium that is different.
quote:
There is no checking method to run a film until the date comes round
The servers do this on their own, however I've found GDC servers to fail at this. Sometimes you can have a corrupted ingest and the GDC has no idea until it starts playing the movie and then you refund the auditorium.
quote:
and even then it still needs a code inserted which is sent direct to the cinema manager via an email.
That is the decryption key, or KDM. It isn't always sent to the manager via email, but in some cases it is. The good systems out there the manager doesn't have to deal with it at all.
quote:
By the way, the trailers and the advertising "reel" arrive on USB sticks.
Nope, only the occasional last-minute trailer will arrive this way. (Each advertising company is different, so there is no rule on that.) Most trailers are about 4GB each, so you can typically only send one trailer per USB stick. The good systems download trailers (and most movies) via satellite and hard drives are simply used as backup if needed. Most systems out there though receive a hard drive each week with the latest trailers on it, just like how dts used to issue a new disc each week to 35mm theaters with all of the latest trailer audio on it.
David Ballew's post is dead on the money. Very well written David.
quote:
Brad,don't try to kid us digital costs more,the whole
argument of the pro digital boys has been the cost of 35mm
film prints.
What I wrote was: "Nothing could be further from the truth. Digital costs more."
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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God
Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012
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posted June 24, 2012 03:55 PM
Well Brad,where is the benefit of the digital age,where complexity
seems the order of the day,I like the bit about "refunding the
auditorium".Once upon a time,if there was a breakdown in the
programme,a cartoon or newsreel would be shown until order
was restored,and the show resumed,now it appears its easier to
"refund the auditorium" and if someones evening out has been spoiled,what the hell.A case there of film and an operator being
superior to a preset machine,but then the paying public must
take what they are given.I still can't figure if digital costs more
why junk film?
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Graham Ritchie
Film God
Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006
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posted June 24, 2012 07:27 PM
Out here the switch to video projection from film for the exhibitor is an expensive exercise. At the moment its roughly around NZ$80.000 per screen. Compared with a brand new Kinoton 35mm projector complete wth automation and lenses "the lot" is around NZ$40.000. A Xenon lamp for the Christie video projector the local multi-plex uses, is about $1800 for a life of only 500hrs. Compared with say a Kinoton 35mm xenon lamp eg the "XL" extreme life is about $800 and thats a lamp that will last you at least 3000hrs plus.
Those prices will change, the video projectors and lamps will come down in price but at the moment the running cost is much higher compared with film. The thing is the film companys still charge that % "their cut" for every seat sold wither its film or not. Those folk, the film companys are the ones that make the money, especially with a new big budget movie where that % is high, with older movies a lower % is better money wise for the cinema if the numbers coming are good.
The cinema makes its $$$ with the popcorn and all the other unhealthy stuff they sell "not so much with the movie" As far as realability is concerned, in the 12 years of projecting film we only ever refunded once and that was because of a power cut to the mall, we never lost a session and had to refund and that must run into many "thousands" over the years with the film projectors themselves. They just ran and ran and still would have been going if we had not closed down ![[Frown]](frown.gif) with video only time will tell ![[Roll Eyes]](rolleyes.gif) . The biggest crime an exhibitor can make out here is to loose a session and have to "refund", thats a "no no" situation.. unless you want a lynch mob chasing you. ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Graham.
PS. About 99% of people that go to the cinema think its a video projector and dvd...pop the disc in...and press play and thats why I used to enjoy showing folk around the projection room, a working museum sort of speak it was a lot of fun and always folk would say.... Wow ![[Cool]](cool.gif) .... thats interesting and it was
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 25, 2012 12:44 AM
quote:
I like the bit about "refunding the
auditorium".Once upon a time,if there was a breakdown in the
programme,a cartoon or newsreel would be shown until order
was restored,and the show resumed,now it appears its easier to
"refund the auditorium" and if someones evening out has been spoiled,what the hell.
Remember, the studios think everyone is a pirate. As such they have devised this system as a false sense of security for themselves to "prevent" bootlegging. When something goes wrong, the studios just write it off as a business expense in a manner of speaking. "It happens." The blame in this example would go to the theater owner that bought the GDC server since it has so many quirks to it. Had they bought Dolby, the problem would have never existed in the first place.
quote:
I still can't figure if digital costs more
why junk film?
Because the studios are tired of paying billions a year into making film prints that the theaters damage when they can simply pay next to nothing to distribute via hard drive AND gain the false sense of security about "preventing piracy".
quote:
A Xenon lamp for the Christie video projector the local multi-plex uses, is about $1800 for a life of only 500hrs. Compared with say a Kinoton 35mm xenon lamp eg the "XL" extreme life is about $800 and thats a lamp that will last you at least 3000hrs plus.
Those numbers are not accurate. Let's use Christie as an example, and let's choose their most expensive bulb.
A CXL-60 was originally designed for film, but works just fine in a digital projector.
A CDXL-60 was originally designed for digital, but produces more light in a film lamphouse (just like how it produces more light in a digital projector). It costs about $100-200 US more and burns for a couple hundred hours less than the CXL-60. (I don't have exact prices handy.) However at the end of the day, if the screen or 3D requires the extra light, the option is there for BOTH foramts. Remember, a bulb is not a bulb. Some are brighter.
Yes the CDXL-60 bulb costs more, but the fact of the matter is EITHER bulb will be brighter in a DLP Christie projector than in a film lamphouse. The problem with your comparison is you are not comparing fairly. It sounds as if you are comparing a 3000 watt film bulb to a 6000 digital bulb. If the digital screen is running 3d, of course it will need a larger bulb (just as 3d film would). But from the sound of it in this example the film system was simply under-spec'd. So what's the issue here? Digital DOES produce more light using the same bulb (of any size or type) than 35mm.
Your comments about the film companys making a ton of money at the first of the run vs. the end of the run are of course spot on. If you want to see some fun with film, watch this video:
Studio Movie Grill Arlington
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Brad Miller
Administrator
Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted June 26, 2012 01:16 AM
Most manufacturers won't quote an expected lifespan, but the general off-the-record number is 10-15 years, which I personally agree is reasonable given the technology.
Obviously film equipment lasts MUCH longer, but that is because it is purely a mechanical system. It was only a matter of time though, as the studios are so paranoid about people copying their (crappy) movies and they don't want to spend the money on making film prints that this was inevitable.
All of the platters were put into the center of the booth because the theaters can fit more shows in a day this way. As soon as it drops in one auditorium, it is re-threaded into the next auditorium where customers are already seated. The films rarely sat "not moving" for very long. It also made interlocking super easy, as it was essentially "built in" to the system. This became a pretty standard setup for our installs, although each platter array was slightly different due to the constraints of the booth.
We also did "delayed interlocks" for those cases when a studio wouldn't release 2 or 3 copies of the film to the theater, we had a design that could hold 4000 feet of film in 1000 foot increments to have multiple auditoriums with staggered showtimes.
That's one thing digital certainly helped out on though...it makes that sort of scheduling effortless. Those booths with the platter arrays required TRUE professional projectionists because there were so many things that could be done wrong.
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