8mm Forum: DVD copies of Super 8 prints ....

This is topic DVD copies of Super 8 prints .... in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 22, 2012, 01:34 PM:

I've seen these for the last two months or so, but I believe that someone is on some very bad grounds.

Someone is makin g DVD prints of thier super 8 collection and marketing them over ebay. Now, selling an actual super 8 print is one thing, as you haven't made a copy of it and your sel;ling the actual print.

... but all those super 8 prints, on the boxes (wel;l, not every distributor did so) they say "for private home viewing" ...

... and to make your own DVD copy is certainly infringing on the original copyright owner.

If a studio wated to, they could sue the s**t ot of this person, that's for sure. Perhaps they're banking, "by the time someone sues me, I will have made enough money to make it all worthwhile ...

but certainly a very bad idea, as it is the studios right and only the studios right, to make a DVD copy of thier own film, and not a private collector ...

... unless, of course, the specific film has run out on it's copyright, but nearly all film that this person is selling are certainly under copyright protection.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on October 22, 2012, 01:49 PM:

I'm just annoyed at them popping up while I'm looking for FILMS! [Roll Eyes]

I think this seller just doesn't understand film collecting. Maybe he or she thinks we'll buy these to preview a digest before buying, but that's a longshot....

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 22, 2012, 06:35 PM:

I think what they're doing is making a similar version on DVD
in the same edit as the 8mm versions,obviously minus subtitles
and where applicable the narrator.I personally can't see the point
of them,we only bought the 8mm versions then because that was
all that was available for sale from the distributors, why would
anyone want these clips,that only resemble the original.As you
gents rightly state, copyrights are being infringed.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on October 22, 2012, 07:18 PM:

I have seen those lately. They are a lot of them being offered. I used to see one occasionaly before but this guy is going crazy with them. And he only get 5.00 for them? It's not worth the trouble you can get into.Besides,who wants to watch them on DVD. Where's the fun in that?

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on October 22, 2012, 08:39 PM:

Seems pointless to me but I suspect some of the customers are ex-collectors feeling a sense of loss, having disposed of their entire collections!

[ October 23, 2012, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]

Posted by Dave Velazquez (Member # 3009) on October 22, 2012, 09:09 PM:

Yes, I've seen those too. Strikes me as weird. Unless you're curious about what the digest cuts of these movies are, why would you want to watch these, much less pay $5 for them?

Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on October 22, 2012, 11:41 PM:

I don't get it [Confused]

I cannot think of a sillier thing to spend $5 on.....

Posted by Raymond Glaser (Member # 1766) on October 22, 2012, 11:51 PM:

I've seen them too - what a pain in the ass they are when you're looking for FILM titles !!!

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 23, 2012, 01:32 PM:

Besides the illegality of them, note that the ebay seller doesn't put a single screen capture from the DVD but instead puts up a stock picture up which is obviously not from the film, (i'm not sure of a few of them), so the potential buyer doesn't even know if they are getting a faded scratched to hell super 8 print or a pristine unfaded super 8 print.

(please note, that this is not an encouragement for the seller to put up super 8 shots from the actual prints, as I certainly do not want to encourage the sellers illegal activity, (especially if this person could potentially be a member of our very forum here). If anything, this series of posts is to, if the person is a member, help them to desist from this activity before they hang themselves by thier very film stock!)

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 23, 2012, 01:57 PM:

I'm not quite sure what the gripe is here, folks.

Has anyone got a link?

Posted by Dave Velazquez (Member # 3009) on October 23, 2012, 09:45 PM:

Something like this:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/The-Golden-Voyage-Of-Sinbad-1973-super-8mm-color-sound-400ft-version-on-DVD-/321004412806?pt=US_DVD_HD_DVD_Blu_ray&hash=item4abd5a9f86

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on October 24, 2012, 10:23 AM:

These titles are listed under FILM STOCK as well. The only real film for sale is the 400' "Creature From The Black Lagoon" in 3-D.

http://www.ebay.com/sch/Film-Stock-/63821/i.html?item=330814171083&pt=US_Film&hash=item4d060fa7cb&_ssn=scifitoys2011

I see these all the time when I search for film on eBay. Like the 37nchistory's DVDs, these are "MIRROR [MIMIC] REMASTERED EDIT VERSIONS OF... OLD 8MM DIGESTS." Many have been sold. If these sellers are breaking the law, I'm not sure if eBay or the studios know or even care.

Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on October 24, 2012, 01:20 PM:

There is the very slightest part of me that envies this, in a manner. I mean, if he is taking aging but still good prints, and cleaning them up digitally and placing them on DVD, he is kind of an "archivist" of sorts.

Interestingly enough, I have heard that there a re a few DVD's put out under copyright by studios that, for a nifty extra, have included a telecine transfer of the super 8 digest from the 70's for nolstalgia purposes.

Does anybody know the titles I'm thinking of, because they escape me at the moment.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 24, 2012, 01:46 PM:

Thanks for the links folks.

I have to say I don't see what the problem is. Who are the sellers harming? I mean, yes, we as collectors would not be interested in such material when we can have the original film prints. But, maybe some people will buy these for nostalgia reasons. Perhaps someone who collected these in their youth but now no longer have nor wish to have film projection equipment.

As for the copyright situation....come on now....we as buyers/sellers/traders of film prints over the years have suddenly acquired some kinda conscience on this matter?? [Big Grin]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 24, 2012, 02:34 PM:

I myself have no argument with this,it isn't to my taste,
watching little 200 footers, but I would advise caution to these folk making them,because these films are not in the public domain
and these businesses that own the copyright can be protective.
There is a warning at the beginning of these prints about such
things, if someone is trying to make a "bob or two" for themselves
fine, but be careful.Myself,I think I'll stick to film, or at least the
full feature on DVD.

Posted by Timothy Ramzyk (Member # 718) on October 24, 2012, 10:22 PM:

I had to admit I was tempted, I no longer buy digests, and sold those which I had. Even in the heyday of my collecting I got snooty about digests instead focusing on complete subjects, I kinda miss them the way I do a familiar tune I'd almost forgot.

It's funny when I now watch a feature film of something i once owned a digest of. I'm always aware of when the clips in the digest kick in, probably because I watched 200 and 400 footers soo many times. I even anticipate their edits.

I buy a fair number of import DVD horror films, and the German disks frequently include 400ft. Super 8 transfers as an extra. Some look amazingly good some pink and spliced up. Still it's fun that they do it, and their heart is in the right place.

That said, I don't really get what this guy is up to, I'd rather have a transfer from the original prints or not at all.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 25, 2012, 02:41 AM:

Who amongst us hasn't bought or sold a 16mm dupe print over the years?
Lets not be hypocritical about the whole copyright thing, eh!

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 25, 2012, 05:03 AM:

I don't think anyone's being hypocritical Michael, we all have in
our own collections various copies that possibly we shouldn't,
as for copyright, you yourself were defensive about it if you thought an artists copyright would be infringed in an earlier thread.I personally have no gripe either way,I only advise caution
because the powers that be view it as piracy.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 25, 2012, 05:40 AM:

Ah, my mistake then.

I thought Osi's original post came across as somewhat pontifical in the matter of copyright.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 25, 2012, 06:04 AM:

I think Osi's just like the rest of us Michael, and that is concerned
that some poor soul is riding for a fall, at least in the days of the
"white box special", it was done a bit more circumspect than
a clutch of adverts on Ebay, of all places.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on October 25, 2012, 06:58 AM:

Bottom line… They just look better on film.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 25, 2012, 07:31 AM:

A better option for whoever is making these little discs would
have been on here where at least he's selling to interested folk
that would buy them.They might even have been of use to anyone
wishing to put a soundtrack on their own 200' clips.It might have
been in his interest to issue them multi lingual for the collectors
in other parts of the world.Whatever,as Lee states,film is best.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 25, 2012, 09:00 AM:

quote:
Bottom line… They just look better on film.

I totally agree.

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on October 25, 2012, 09:33 AM:

In terms of the legal issues, we know that people have been willing to take a chance by putting 8mm digests on You Tube. I don't know if any distributors have caused any of these to be removed or - more seriously - taken action against any such individuals. If there's no evidence of such steps, that's liable to encourage anyone selling these DVD transfers. Although I'd agree that the chances of prosecution are probably very small at worst in relation to most releases, I still think that if anyone tried it in relation to a Disney 8mm release, they would be extremely unwise, but they may know that.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 25, 2012, 01:51 PM:

I haven't looked at these listings but from what has been written on here the perpertrator is transferring copyrighted motion pictures (or cutting a sell-through DVD down to match the original Super 8 edit) and is therefore breaking the law. What makes this more serious than just putting them up on YouTube is there is a charge for the copies. This is video piracy and as such the culprits could be persued.

If it were something I'd created that was being pirated I'd go after them and I won't be surprised if the studios finally spot it and have him.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 25, 2012, 02:55 PM:

Well I hope it doesn't come to that John,I can understand the
reasoning behind it, but I'd hate for him to come unstuck with
the copyright law, even though he does seem to be leading with his chin.It's just a shame he didn't just keep it "in house" on here
as I'm sure members would have bought them,coupled to which
he'd be out of the public eye.

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on October 25, 2012, 04:10 PM:

Curiosity killed the pussy(they say).Just have to have a look at these.Can he really remaster rotten old digests?I've sent for the Planet of the Apes and the "Creature"dvds [Wink]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 25, 2012, 04:38 PM:

I honestly don't know Trevor, I would imagine they are taken from
another source and he follows the original edit of the condensation.They could be most useful to anyone who wishes
to put sound on their own films, but I question the sense in
leaving himself open to legal action on Ebay.

Posted by John Clancy (Member # 49) on October 26, 2012, 03:10 AM:

The main prosecutions of pirates come when they start charging for what they have ripped off. I think he'd have got a rough ride if he'd have come on here and started trying to get money out of people for work he hadn't done himself.

Like a lot of people he probably thinks that because the company that put out the super 8 cut down is no longer around that means their work is free for anyone to make use of. It doesn't work like that as they licenced the use of the motion pictures in the first place. I have the same issues in my own business where people think they can rip off original Standard-Triumph motoring films from back in the day but in reality those archive films are now owned by BMIHT in the UK and Jaguar Archives in North America dependent on where the film originated.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on October 26, 2012, 05:54 AM:

While we know piracy is a crime, I feel the majority of people
tend to accept or turn a blind eye to it,there are more serious
crimes to contend with.I'm not making a case for piracy,but when
the opportunity arises, some people will take it.The site YouTube
and many others where films & music can be downloaded seem
to be on the increase,the company known as Google made their
site maps purely on the invasion of peoples privacy,a more serious
crime than copyiing film,as it was a guide for burglars, but the Police did nothing.As for him being given a rough ride on the Forum,I honestly don't think so, as a lot of members would have taken the opportunity
if they haven't already done so,of obtaining soundtracks for their own clips.The sad fact is John, is that now with all the
techno that is available, it is possible to copy almost anything,
while I feel sorry for the individual like yourself, the big companies have brought it on themselves by making the tools
freely available.

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 13, 2012, 02:46 PM:

I got my dvds.Just had a look at Planet of the Apes.It is so good I'd imagine it was done the way Hugh suggests-selected scenes from a dvd assembled as they are on the 200ft film.What a lot of trouble to go to! [Wink]

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on November 13, 2012, 03:27 PM:

The seller now describes his DVD is done through that way (editing the DVD).

Hi Trevor could you now compare side by side that the DVD can be used for synchronizing with projector?

If the seller did an excellent job, I believe this is an asset for us to screen our film in better sound (or to re dub without any hassle to edit the picture).

Can you tell us please.

Posted by Trevor Adams (Member # 42) on November 14, 2012, 04:42 PM:

I think it could be,Win.Why not get his PotA one and experiment [Wink]

Trev

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on November 14, 2012, 06:23 PM:

Trevor,

Are these edited versions of the Apes movies full frame or widescreen? I know that the original DVDs were available both ways.

Also, scifitoys2011 lists the running time of the DVD at 1 hour. Is it? All five of the original Ken digests were only released on 200' reels. The combined running time would be around 35 min.

Just curious,

Chris

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on November 15, 2012, 01:59 PM:

Bought dvd from Movie Magic Studios they were 8mm films copied to dvd. (naughty films). They are on youtube anyway. Did give you a filmy look though.

I have transferred a few of my old Laserdiscs onto dvd. Probably because they are analogue and did not have all the crap they do to dvd releases, edge enchantment, noise reduction, they do look more like watching film. Not to sell though.

Films turn red, but some of my laserdiscs are almost unplayable to laser rot. Film lasts longer though, I can at least watch a red print.

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