8mm Forum: Problems with Elmo Projector

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Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 10, 2013, 09:12 PM:

I have been having trouble with my Elmo K100 SM grabbing the film to feed through. Once in awhile when I turn it on it will catch and go through beautifully, but more often than not, it doesn't. I turn it on (not with the light) and the little arm pushes against the wheel, but it doesn't catch. I can push the film all the way through and spool onto the take up reel, but then it's jumpy and doesn't look right. I'm new at this and could really use some help. I'm not real familiar with all the parts. I know there's a claw and film gate, but I've never really been able to find a diagram that shows me what these are. I've attached some pictures, if you could help me attach labels to the letters, that would be great! Any help on getting it to feed correctly would be wonderful too! Please Help!

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on April 11, 2013, 07:26 AM:

Quote... JANE...

"I'm new at this and could really use some help. I'm not real familiar with all the parts."

Jane, if this is true then why are you using this telecine projector instead of something more basic and original, which a beginner might easily use?
That is a modified Elmo K-100sm and it has dim-able LED lighting instead of the original dichroic lamp setup. This projector can't project to a screen as its light output is now insufficient. So explain how you are using it?

dogtor frankarnstein

[Smile]

Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 11, 2013, 08:17 AM:

You are correct. This projector has been modified for video transfers. I am a professional videographer with a special interest in video biography & documentary. I use a lot of old photos, and video with my work.

In the past I didn't use a whole lot of 8 mm film and what I did use, I just projected on the screen the old-fashioned way and filmed it from there. Lately I have had more projects involving 8mm film and wanted to find a more effective means to transfer. This unit, paired with my video camera, does a nice job and produces a clear image for transfer to DVD without the need for a completely darkened room. I like the dimmer because I can compensate for over-exposed or under-exposed film.

I now realize that adjustments are inevitable over time, and I really need to learn how to do it myself. The problem is, I bought the unit from ebay and communication with the guy is somewhat difficult. I could visit his store in Michigan, but I'd like to save myself a trip, if possible. Thought I'd try here first.

[ April 12, 2013, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Jane Mecham ]

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on April 11, 2013, 08:32 AM:

Jane

Try a find Janice Glesser a forum member. She also does film transfers and is very knowledgeable in this area.

PatD

Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on April 11, 2013, 11:05 AM:

Jane,

Welcome to the Forum!

Threading problems normally begin with the upper sprocket not engaging the film properly, however if the film does thread up successfully on occasion then I doubt there is a problem with the claw, the sprocket wheels or the gate. Please excuse me for saying something very basic, but the K100 is a dual 8mm projector, so the first thing of course is to make sure that its been set for the proper film format. Second basic point is to use the film trimmer located on the bottom front of the projector. Elmos can be particular about engaging that first frame going in, so if the leader hasn't been cut using the Elmo trimmer, it could give you that jumpy look you describe, which basically is a result of improper loop size. When that happens, does using the loop restorer work?

Doug

Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 11, 2013, 02:32 PM:

Doug, thank you so much for your reply. I don't mind very basic responses as something like not having it set properly would be easy to overlook. Yes, I've made sure the projector is set for the proper film format. I don't believe this particular Elmo model has a loop restorer. I do have an Elmo Super 8 projector that does have a loop restorer, so I am somewhat familiar with it. I have noticed that using the Elmo trimmer is essential on properly engaging the film. Lately, after trimming, I've tried presenting the film at different angles, and everything else I can think of to get it to engage, but it works only rarely. Usually it will work a couple of times and then quit. After that, nothing I do seems to work. I can feed it all the way through, but whenever I do that, the film is really jumpy.

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on April 12, 2013, 09:57 AM:

Jane

Is there any kind of roller or wheel that is supposed to pull or push the film through to the take up reel? I had a GAF that did the same thing and there was the skiniest belt that was missing that turn a feed roller. After I replaced it the film sel threaded fine. If there is, check to see if it is turning or rubbing the film as it should. I assume you all ready checked to see if there are any broken pieces in the film channel at all.

PatD

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on April 12, 2013, 10:15 AM:

That was going to be my response check your film path for any broken film chips is there a loading lever for this unit?

[ April 12, 2013, 01:13 PM: Message edited by: Jim Schrader ]

Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 12, 2013, 10:48 AM:

OK, I think we're getting closer. Yes there is a wheel that is supposed to push the film through (Labeled J in the pictures in my first post). It will turn sporadically and then stop. It suddenly started spinning this morning and the film loaded beautifully, then the wheel slowed and stopped and wouldn't spin at all. It kind of seems like something is blocking it, but I can't for the life of me figure out what it is. I checked the back of the unit that has the gears that turn it, but they seem fine, and the belt seems OK. Jim, I'm not really sure what you mean by a loading switch, but there is a little piece that flips up against the wheel when I turn the knob to load. When I turn the knob all the way so the projector lights up, it releases. I've tried adjusting it so there is not so much tension (even to where it isn't flipping up at all) and it doesn't make a difference. Film path is clear.

I just removed the cover unit of the wheel to see what was going on. I assume the post I've got pictured is what turns the wheel, but it doesn't turn at all when I turn the machine on. It also won't turn when I try manually. I also uploaded a few pictures of the corresponding post from the back of the unit.

[ April 12, 2013, 12:51 PM: Message edited by: Jane Mecham ]

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on April 12, 2013, 01:11 PM:

Jane on your other elmo do you push anything before inserting the film? the loading lever is used to thread the film properly. does this unit have anything similar to that one?
Also check your belt here is a picture of the way it should be routed.

here is a video on youtube of a person using one he moves so fast its hard to see what's spinning plus the moron is flipping switches left and right without the machine in the off position ouch.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1pgSiiECrmM

Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 12, 2013, 02:29 PM:

Jim,

I do push something down on my other Elmo before loading. There is nothing like that on this machine. I also have that belt diagram on my machine for how the belt should be routed, but the wheels on my machine don't look like that. I don't know if it was modified somehow when it was made into a Telecine unit or what. I doubt it. But I've attached a pic of the back. Hopefully you can see the belt.

Thank you for the video link. My machine is exactly like it, the only exception being that his little feeding wheel turns and mine doesn't.

Posted by frank arnstein (Member # 330) on April 12, 2013, 03:30 PM:

Hi Jane,

I have studied your pictures of the rear of the projector and now can see what is wrong. There is a missing component which is essential for efficient threading to occur.

Jims belt picture shows us that a vital small pulley is missing on your projector. Its purpose is to spread the belt contact around the threading pulley eliminating any drive slippage. Without this small but important tensioner, the driving belt only glances the threading pulley and so hardly drives it at all. It threads sometimes but mostly won't thread, as is your case. I can still see the small threaded hole which originally mounted the small swinging pulley before some one removed it.

If you refit the missing pulley the projector should thread properly again.

Good luck finding one. Let us all know how you go.
dogtor frankarnstein

[Wink]

P.S. As this is a sprocketless projector it has no sprockets to thread the film to the claw, relying on the capstan drive. It does have a loop restorer but it is an automatic one. It is part of that plastic spring-loaded thing which you have removed that covers the threading capstan. Make sure the hairline spring behind it is working properly in returning the loop former back to the resting position.

Posted by Jane Mecham (Member # 3623) on April 12, 2013, 04:08 PM:

You guys are AWESOME!!!! That was a nice bit of detective work by several of you! I'll contact the guy I got it from and point out the problem. I'll let you all know how it turns out.

Posted by Chris Bankston (Member # 3586) on July 27, 2013, 07:22 PM:

that iwas freakin amazing detective work....

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