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Topic: FAME with Vinegar

Brian Hendel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 902
From: New York, New York
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 01, 2013 06:45 PM

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Just ordered the two reel Fame digest and it arrived smelling like vinegar. It's my first vinegar print! It was bound to happen I guess. Using Filmguard is taking down the smell a bit but is it dangerous to keep it. I keep reading posts about it being contagious and it will infect my other films. How far does it have to be kept away and should it be quarantined?! I'm half kidding - but I don't want to risk my collection for a Fame digest!

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 01, 2013 06:57 PM

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Brian, I think you have answered your own question - throw it out!

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted July 01, 2013 07:10 PM

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Hi Brian, keep it away from your other films, I would give it as much ventilation as possible, keep it in card containers,as cans will
make it worse. I have a 16mm copy of would you believe "By The
Light of the Silvery Moon" on B/W stock, I got it cheap and it reminds me of myself & my pal laying bricks to the tune, but back to the problem. Isolate it,keep it well vented, and there are sachets that you can place to absorb the acetic gases produced.
I also soaked the print in Filmrenew, which seems to have kept the problem at bay. There was a chap on the forum that made
his own film treatment, that was as good as Filmrenew, and at
a fraction of the cost.

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted July 01, 2013 07:29 PM

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Brian

If you decide to keep it(I wouldn't) keep it at least 3 blocks down the street! And always take into account wind direction [Eek!]

[Eek!]

PatD

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James N. Savage 3
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1375
From: Washington, DC
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 02, 2013 06:02 AM

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Fame is a great digest. One thing I would do Brian is keep the reels in open air for a week or two, then check again.

A while back, I did a post about ordering some films from Australia. Two films arrived, smelling like STRONG vinegar. I treated both with Filmguard and left them in open air (outside) for a few days. When I re-checked them, only one film had the smell, and the other film had no sign of vinegar at all.

The bottom line is, your Fame digest may have been stored with other films with the vinegar problem, but it could be ok.

Also, if you unroll a few feet of the film and let it hang free, does it have a straight curl, or a sort of twisted look?

James.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2013 06:22 AM

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I'm with James here: I received a vinegar smelling print once and in the end it turned out to be polyester and therefore VS immune!

I believe it was stored with vinegared acetate prints and picked up the odor.

If your Fame turns out to be Poly, there is nothing to worry about.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted July 02, 2013 06:33 AM

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And if it's poly and smells, would it harm the other films? Even if that poly print is okay, it's be crap if it crept onto the acetates

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2013 07:51 AM

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I doubt it would, but just for caution (even just peace of mind) there's no harm in keeping it isolated until it airs out.

My print de-stinked within a month.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted July 02, 2013 07:53 AM

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You want fries with that? [Eek!]

[Eek!]

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Lee Bombard
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 139
From: Santa Clarita, CA, USA
Registered: May 2013

posted July 02, 2013 08:44 AM

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Here's a bit of info from The Image Permanence Institute on vinegar syndrome:

https://www.imagepermanenceinstitute.org/resources/newsletter-archive/v12/vinegar-syndrome

Keep in mind that just because a film is polyester based doesn't mean that there couldn't be acetate leader or other footage cut into the print.

You absolutely don't want film affected with vinegar syndrome around...

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2013 08:47 AM

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I think the biggest culprit in my case was the cardboard boxes.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 02, 2013 09:06 AM

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I have a 16mm print with vinegar i have left it opened now for years and the smell has diminished greatly, if it has great color and is not curling or other problems just leave it open in another room if its curling yep throw it out.

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 02, 2013 12:41 PM

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That's surprising, hearing that that print, "FAME", has vinegar syndrome ...

but then, there were different print runs on different film stocks for some titles.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 02, 2013 02:56 PM

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I know 16mm prints suffer with this but didnt realise our 8mm prints were starting to, first red now vineger [Confused]

[Confused]

[Frown]

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Jonathan Trevithick
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 569
From: Gold Coast Australia
Registered: May 2012

posted July 02, 2013 05:46 PM

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I almost bought a 16mm vinegar print from an uneducated seller yesterday. Fortunately, when asked he told me it did have the smell. Naturally, I declined on that one. As with many sellers who are not collectors, he had no idea VS was a problem for films.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted July 02, 2013 06:30 PM

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Then theres the plenty of people selling them knowing fine well what they are !!!

Personally I think its a binner if its going.

Best Mark.

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