8mm Forum: Color Correcting with Filter?

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Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on August 24, 2013, 09:43 AM:

I've heard of a filter that improves on the reddish fading on films. Not permanently of course. Wittner has one for $180.

I saw this video, don't know if it's the same one but it looks pretty good:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LedPrbUPlok

Anyone own one? Seems like it would be a great way to breathe new life into those faded films. Would love to hear feedback.

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on August 24, 2013, 10:07 AM:

Hi Ernie,

I posted this in early 2012.

The cellophane I use isn't exactly Blue Cling Wrap, although that might work too. It is a little thicker than that. It is a roll of blue clear gift wrap that is sometimes used to line Easter and gift baskets. I found it at a party/novelty store. I cut off a piece and taped it over the lens. Just one layer, though. Two pieces makes the picture darker and everything looks purple. Ideally I would use a piece of blue colored gel used for theatrical lighting. I don't have any of that handy so I found something like it. I tried a crafts store but the wrap was expensive. I got a much better deal at the party store.

Here is a discussion about filters from last month.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=008365#000005

Hope this helps.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 24, 2013, 10:14 AM:

The easiest way, and very effective way Ernie is to invest in some
theatre lighting gels, you'll find a combination of yellow & blue
works wonders with helping out with colour fade. Using only blue
makes people take on the pallor of the living dead.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 24, 2013, 10:18 AM:

It did a good job on that film, though I should imagine that if a film has turned completely red then there is nothing the home user could do. I have a set of gelatine filters I bought from an ad in Movie Maker back in the 70s, I think they were originally used for theatrical lighting and were being sold for special effects, such as using a blue filter for turning sunlight into moonlight. They were fairly cheap as they are not optical quality. Worth trying on one or two of my red films.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 24, 2013, 10:29 AM:

This is what I put up a few weeks ago.
http://www.stagedepot.co.uk/lighting/gels?gclid=COm0wOj8sLgCFWbJtAodWUUA2g

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on August 24, 2013, 10:52 AM:

Hugh is right.

If a film a too red, just a blue filter does strange things to the color.

I have a 50' reel called "Adventureland" from Disneyland. It is almost completely red. I put two layers of blue cellophane over the lens. This is the result.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q1ERE9UG51w

The living dead. [Big Grin]

Posted by Paul Browning (Member # 2715) on August 24, 2013, 11:02 AM:

Hi gents , don't buy them , just find your local theatre lighting company ( stage electrics is in Bristol now) and ask for the rosco swatch book for the colour gels that they do , all shades of colour are supplied and the size will accommodate the lens on your projector , you just need to find a way to fix it over the end of the lens maybe a tube of some sort .If you search on line i'm sure they would be happy to send you one in the post . To do a proper job you need the coloured optical glass used in night club lighting effects , these are correct colour density and heat resistant , but expensive.

Posted by Ernie Zahn (Member # 274) on August 24, 2013, 11:17 AM:

Cool thanks for all the helpful info. I should have thought of gels. I have a few lighting friends who would be able to lend me some gels so I can test which combo works best.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 24, 2013, 11:25 AM:

Chris, did you film this off the screen, looks pretty good with only minimal flicker.

Posted by Christian Schatz (Member # 2961) on August 24, 2013, 11:32 AM:

Hello,

i've uploaded that video on YouTube. I'm using the following
color correction filter that is used normaly in photography:

HAMA HTMC Filter KB 15 - LB - 131
Light Balancing 80A
747 M 52

I'v bought it at Ebay Germany for 5€ (~ 7$).
It works nice, but it will be good to use at least projectors
with 150W bulbs. The filter absorbs lots of light.

Kind regards,
Chris

Posted by Chris Fries (Member # 2719) on August 24, 2013, 11:40 AM:

Robert,

I projected the Disneyland film on a white poster board. Like all my transfers, there is some flicker. As I've said before, it's the best I can do with my JVC mini DV camcorder. I set the shutter speed to 1/60. There would be much more flicker if I didn't.

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 24, 2013, 11:46 AM:

Thanks Chris; my HD Camcorder has a set speed, which I think is 30fps. Haven't tried copying a film at 24fps. Your looked good.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 24, 2013, 02:35 PM:

Rosco are the ones I use Paul, I bought some sheets years ago,
and they work very well.

Posted by Chad Shumaker (Member # 2384) on August 24, 2013, 03:39 PM:

Ernie,

I'm relatively new to the hobby (only a few years) and I can confirm the gels do work pretty well. Nice inexpensive solution. It does darken the picture a bit but it does work.

I used a gel that was a very pale blue. I placed a slice of it into one of those cardboard sleeves coin collectors use. I think I used a fifty cent piece size. A little sticky tack holds it in place on my lens!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 24, 2013, 06:13 PM:

Any recommendations for specific Rosco Gel colors that work well you. Otherwise it's pretty much trial and error to find workable colors.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on August 24, 2013, 06:20 PM:

I am very happy with mine ... Bought from here : http://www.ebay.com/itm/16 mm-film-EIKI-COLOR-CORRECTION-FILTER-fits-EIKI-PROJECTOR-STOCK-LENS-not-scope-/200953923465?pt=US_Film&hash=item2ec9c98789

He's cheap at least :-) Three shades of cyan filters, makes red films look half decent

I do believe he takes request on size of the lens cap

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on August 24, 2013, 06:47 PM:

He does take request on size of lens, but still waiting for mine after a couple of months.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 24, 2013, 07:08 PM:

Looking at Ernies piece of film reinforces my point, that yellow is
needed to give flesh tone and green to foliage, but the lamp on your projector should be bright enough for good results. Janice, I'll
check my Rosco book for the coloured gels I have found to work well and get back to you.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 24, 2013, 10:34 PM:

Thanks Hugh...I have a set of blue gels like Vidar has...but I would like to try adding the yellow and have backup filter gels too. It's easy to lose them.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 25, 2013, 05:35 PM:

Hi Janice, the Rosco Supergels that I use, are ;COOL BLUE#96,
GASLIGHT GREEN #388, LIME GREEN #96 & LIGHT STRAW #11
i experimented with the many shades available, and thought
these the best. You can also double up on a colour, like 2x blue
to 1 yellow. Hope you have fun Jan.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on August 26, 2013, 01:28 AM:

Outstanding Hugh! Thank you so much...No need for me to re-invent the wheel, since you have already done testing. [Smile]

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 26, 2013, 05:00 AM:

I suppose it's just a case of what you think yourself Janice suits
best the film. Incidentaly, I have found that the plastic waste fittings used in plumbing,do a great job in housing the filters as there is a flange that the gel fits against that can be held in place with a rubber ring and fits nicely over the proj. lens.Good luck.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on August 26, 2013, 05:52 AM:

Thanks for the Rosco gel tips, Hugh. Just one question, though. Have you experienced any bleaching out of the filters under the intensity of the light source?

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 26, 2013, 05:57 AM:

No I have never come across any colour loss on filter Allan as they
are well away from any heat, and the plastic fitting just fits over the lens.I think Rosco's gels have a reputation of excellence, being
used for stage lighting.

Posted by Allan Broadfield (Member # 2298) on August 26, 2013, 06:54 AM:

Thanks, Hugh, shall give it a try. Like Vidar, I have previously requested the filters fitted into a lens cap kit, as advertised by a chap in the US on ebay, but without any luck yet, apparently he's snowed under with work.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on August 26, 2013, 07:19 AM:

He do take some time to send, but I did get both mine

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 26, 2013, 09:42 AM:

Some years ago I worked in a cinema which also had regular stage shows. We used coloured gels for the stage lights and also for our follow spots.

I had bought a 16mm feature which was completely pink and hoped that a colour filter on the lens might help. I took cuts off the rolls of many different gels. But, all to no avail.

I soon realised that if a film had turned to one colour, be it pink, red or brown, the filters would not help.

If a film has colour fade but with still some degree of colours present, filters may assist with some correction.

But such filters are not panaceas.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 26, 2013, 02:11 PM:

True Maurice, but gels do put back some colour that does improve
viewing, nothing worse than an off colour print. The numbers of gels I recommended to Jan, are pale compared to other colours
in Rosco's many varied shades, but do the job of giving flesh tone
and other colours invisible in the pink print, are suddenly there.
I have often thought on the lines of a colour tinted lamp, that
might offset these "colour challenged" prints.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 27, 2013, 04:30 AM:

quote:
.....and other colours invisible in the pink print are suddenly there

Hugh
Do you really believe that invisible colours can suddenly appear?

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on August 27, 2013, 05:32 AM:

Even if you can't see them due to the redness,the blues at least come through better ... Not sure if it's lost all color, but they seem to not be there without the filters.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 08:15 AM:

Maurice, the proof is "in the pudding", I've been using a blue
& yellow/lime combo for years, and yes colours do "appear"
that were suddenly invisible before, are there for all to see.
Try it and see for yourself.

Posted by Roy Neil (Member # 913) on August 27, 2013, 09:49 AM:

Projecting onto a screen surface other than white yields interesting results.

For example I have found a gray screen minimizes the apparent color fade considerably. Of course if it is beet red this will not bring color back - however - in the case of blacks shifting to dark red, it works well.

Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 10:35 AM:

That's interesting Roy, and merits further study.

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