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Topic: Second-hand Super 8 v 16mm
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John Hermes
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 139
From: La Mesa, CA, USA
Registered: Nov 2008
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posted July 03, 2014 11:53 AM
I have used all three guages extensively (35mm also) and have transferred film to video for thirty years. I would say super 8 is more prone to perforation damage than regular 8 or 16mm. I have seen less perforation damage in regular 8 than anything else. The small perfs in super 8 are the culprit, in my opinion, although with everything in order, super 8 is fine. Terrible scratches in 16mm are seen too, but it is easier to keep the machines clean. If you have a clean machine in good working order and handle the film carefully, each guage is okay.
[ July 03, 2014, 11:16 PM: Message edited by: John Hermes ]
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John Hermes
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Andrew Woodcock
Film God
Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012
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posted July 03, 2014 02:09 PM
In this order they are:-
1/ Bauer T610 (probably most other models also) eg 525etc
2/ Eumig S938/940
3/ Beaulieu 708EL (now it's back to original state)
I could also include the Agfa sonnector (Bauer designed) in there as well but it is top sprocketless and really isn't meant to run features with its modest 100w lamp,600ft spool capacity.
Nice machine for short films on small screen sizes though.
All of the three I have mentioned WILL still scratch once they develop a fault but will never when all is A1 in my experience. Plus when all is A1 you really never need worry about constant cleaning etc, they tend to be so kind to film, they look after themselves by and large. I certainly don't need to clean between reels as I hear some on here have to in order to relax.
With this in mind compared to the hundreds of different machines out there to choose from, it is little wonder there are soo.. many damaged prints?
Also not everyone is a born genius projector service engineer, so it is hardly surprising that some decent films end up ruined through ignorance of an ill condition on any machine. This has probably happened to all of us at one time or another. It certainly has me on many many occasions until I find what the fault is & why.
That is my experience of two times around in the hobby and I have owned many many more machines but some including Imac, Cinerex, chinnon, and some of the early Eumig ones I had were absolutely awful at handling film and would put you off the hobby for life in a matter of weeks if you were new to the game and didn't know better existed.
I know Elmo's can be made scratch free but typically you have to work very hard to achieve this and constantly have to monitor for wear etc, regularly lose the bottom loop and without keeping it in a surgeons operating theatre, I find your heart is constantly in your mouth. I never relax while watching films on any that I have had. Can't speak for the GS1200 though,as I have never had one.
Also never had a Fujica or Fumeo so I cannot comment on any of those either. From what I hear Fumeo are very good though I believe. I also hear the best Braun Visacoustic (2000),is a belter but once again, cannot comment as I never have found one in the UK.
One of the measures I use to guage whether or not I have good machine in my hands, is if I can run it backwards regularly without it damaging film. Not many can boast this but my top 3 can and have on many occasions. This is pretty much a necessity if you use your PJ to record on but it is surprising how many do this basic function really badly and will scratch regularly when attempting to do so.
[ July 03, 2014, 05:00 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]
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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted July 03, 2014 03:33 PM
I think the introduction of auto threading was the worst thing that ever happened to super 8mm. A totally unnecessary feature, it has undoubtedly been responsible for the mutilation of more super 8 footage than anything else. My bolex 18-5 manual thread projector can be so easily threaded up in a few seconds, and it has never scratched, torn, or buckled, a single frame of film.
Many super 8 projectors were(are) really cheap and nasty, and the designs ignored the simple basics of protecting the film. Even Eumig dipped into cheap and nasty waters with some of their sprocketless design projectors, some of which were in fact not so inexpensive.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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