8mm Forum: Scope for Dummies (at least one)

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Posted by Chad Shumaker (Member # 2384) on July 04, 2014, 12:23 AM:

I've decided I should get a scope lens for my projector. I have a few reels that are scope and while smooshed pictures aren't too bothersome, it would be nice to see them as they should be seen.

So...

I have NO CLUE about getting a lens. I have read all kinds of stuff and my head is spinning. So here's the list of questions.

1. What should I search for on the web? "wide angle lens"? "wide lens"? "scope lens"? "anamorphic lens"? I've seen all of these things but I don't know if they are what I need.

2. My projector is nothing fancy. It's a Sankyo sound 500. I'm pretty sure finding an exact fit would be tough. I think I've read that I can actually place a scope lens in front of my normal lens (or build some sort of device to hold it in place) and it will do the trick. No clue if that is true or not.

3. What should I expect to pay?

As always thanks in advance for any help!

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on July 04, 2014, 01:22 AM:

Hi scope lens and anamorphic lens are the same thing. Most are 2.5 like the Kowa 8z. I have used one of these since scope on super 8 prints were available. For my 16mm I bought a cheap Snakor (I think that's the name) I keep it on the bracket all the time.

Classic sell both the lens and brackets, you could try Phil.

One thing to watch out for they made 1.5 These were for filming only, due to them not full scope. They gave more of a widescreen shape on super 8. By that I mean you still used one lens for filming and the same for projecting. I found the shape more pleasing for my own films. None were commercially available to my knowledge.

Classic

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 04, 2014, 02:33 AM:

The squeeze ratio of an anamorphic/scope lens is 2X, i.e. the width of picture is twice that of normal picture width.

The figure of 2.5 (usually 2.55) is the ratio of width against the height of the picture.

The lens you are thinking of, David, is a Sankor.

Posted by Vidar Olavesen (Member # 3354) on July 04, 2014, 02:40 AM:

Personally I love these, but they're heavy and need a good bracket, so if you can make one yourself, it's a super lens

http://www.ebay.de/itm/Rectimascop-48-2x-Rathenower-Optische-Werke-Filmtechnik-/171329629758?pt=DDR_Ostalgie&hash=item27e40aae3e

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 04, 2014, 03:03 AM:

Chad
Be very careful of what you buy, there are dozens of 'scope lenses available on eBay, most of them at an attractive price. However, these are all redundant lenses from scrap 35mm use where the cinema had gone digital. They can be used but because of their weight would need a special mounting assembly in front of the projector, they would be too heavy to attach to the projector itself.

The small 'scope lenses which are suitable can be quite expensive, probably around 100 English pounds or more (in excess of US$160.)

Some Super 8 projectors often have holes for adding accessories such as a daylight viewer, these holes can be used to attach a lightweight 'scope lens in front of the basic lens.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 04, 2014, 03:31 AM:

I just obtained a Proskar Ishico 2x scope lens which fits the attached scope adaptor supplied with the Beaulieu stereo perfectly.

It is quite heavy but not AS heavy as the Kowa and has a smaller rear barrel which enables it to fit inside the fitted scope adaptor perfectly.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 04, 2014, 05:35 AM:

I have fond memories of the Proskar which I bought new in 1968 for 'scope showing at my Film Society. It cost 19 guineas (£19/19/0) plus a small amount for the adapter ring to screw into the 2" lens of my Bell & Howell 652.

The only (small) problem was that as it screwed into the backing lens it needed to be installed before the audience arrived, because it nearly always needed a slight twist of the two lenses together to get 90 degree corners on the screen.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 04, 2014, 08:19 AM:

I bet you would pay a bit more than that for it now Maurice, that's for sure!

Mine just sits clamped into the adaptor ring fastened onto the projector so the screw thread is redundant when used in front of the projector.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 05, 2014, 02:23 AM:

Chad

In answer to your question number 2, the answer is yes. The anamorphic (scope) will have to be positioned in front of your basic lens to provide the expanded picture.

You say you have a Sankyo 500, I have a 501 which, I believe is cosmetically the same body. An inspection of mine reveals no holes at all which could be used for attaching the scope lens, there is a fixing hole just round the back which holds the back panel on. This, however, does not seem a feasible idea. Nor can you attach the scope lens directly to the projector's existing lens.

The only answer is to perhaps make a base board for the projector to stand on but which extends further than the lens. Then make an upright of some sort which can contain a clamping arrangement for the scope lens.

In this country it would be possible to make use of parts from a Meccano set, possibly called Erector in the US (or similar), this is the best way to proceed but bear in mind that the scope lens would always need to be in a direct line with the projector's own lens.

Posted by Chad Shumaker (Member # 2384) on July 07, 2014, 12:19 AM:

Thanks for the info/advice everyone. I think I may have solved my problem. Will let you all know ASAP!

Posted by Chad Shumaker (Member # 2384) on July 10, 2014, 09:17 PM:

Well, I was wrong. Picked up the incorrect lens. I am seeing some on eBay marked as "Super wide" is this right? Sorry for my ignorance everyone...

This one?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 11, 2014, 12:09 AM:

Maurice, this is out of topic but is (or was) "guinea" a common word for "pound" ? In Egypt, they use the Egyptian pound as currency and I always wondered why they called that "guinea" when they were talking together in Arabic.

Posted by Panayotis A. Carayannis (Member # 1220) on July 11, 2014, 03:38 AM:

Term is a remnant from the times of the english occupation.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 11, 2014, 03:52 AM:

Chad, you should contact either Phil at classic home cinema or Paul Foster Films or Barry at Indi 8, these three dealers usually have one and if they don't they usually get one before long, if you buy one on eBay you will end up paying over the top, (unless you are lucky), you certainly wont regret getting one once you see that picture opened up as it should be. [Wink]

Oh, and also Ian at Perrys Movies.

Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on July 11, 2014, 05:18 AM:

"Guinea" is English. It is "One pound + one shilling" i.e 5% MORE than a Pound. Was common actual currency up to about 1800 ....the actual coinage disappeared, but transactions in Guineas were common up to after the Second World War.
Some UK Horse Races still bear the names (e.g. "One Thousand Guineas", etc.) but the prizes for winning are no doubt much greater.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 12, 2014, 12:28 AM:

Thank you, Martin !

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on July 12, 2014, 02:17 AM:

19 guineas, usually in a dress shop, would actually be 19 pounds plus 19 shillings. That's almost 20 pounds.
It's a sellers trick often now used such as £9.99, i.e. one penny short of ten pounds.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on July 15, 2014, 11:35 AM:

I believe the guinea was originally used for auctions where the 1 shilling was the auction house commission (5%). This meant the amount bid in in guineas was the amount, in pounds, that the seller got. It save a lot on arithmatic.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on July 15, 2014, 01:33 PM:

It is amazing to see all you can learn on Internet ! Thanks.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 15, 2014, 03:59 PM:

anyway, back to the scope lens's, did you try the dealers yet?

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