8mm Forum: Putting features onto larger reels question..

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 06, 2014, 12:53 PM:

Hi All,
I have "Gone with the Wind" on their original 600ft reels. I want to put them on a larger reel so I don't have to keep getting up to thread each reel. When you members do this, do you keep the original heads and tails around so that you can put it back to its original configuration in the event you decide to sell the films?

Posted by Pasquale DAlessio (Member # 2052) on September 06, 2014, 01:17 PM:

Hi Alan

I keep everything in case I sell the prine and the buyer doesn't have a large format projector. Plus I think it adds value to the print if you have original heads and tails and boxes.

PatD

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 06, 2014, 02:18 PM:

Yes Rik. I do.

Posted by Luis Caramelo (Member # 2430) on September 06, 2014, 02:52 PM:

hi!Rik.i do also keep my all features in large reels,and keep their original leads and tails,in my opinion it,s more comfortable to runn the film with out many stops,that will keep the audiences atention,to a 4 hours film to make na intermission it,s fine but stop the projector every 30 minutes,,, [Frown]

luis caramelo

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 06, 2014, 02:56 PM:

Rik, I think GWTW will just about fit onto 2x Beaulieu (Posso) 2300ft spools giving you just one interval after 4x600ft.

Posted by Alex Fox (Member # 94) on September 06, 2014, 03:05 PM:

Hi., Alan, I also do as Pat does ,so that if i ever need to put the film back on to small reels it will have the orginal leaders and tails.I do not like getting film that does not have the original L's and T's Alex.

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 06, 2014, 03:47 PM:

I have 2 of the Beaulieu reels. Unfortunately that means I won't have a take up reel! Oops. Should have thought about that predicament.

Posted by David Ollerearnshaw (Member # 3296) on September 06, 2014, 04:51 PM:

I too much prefer to have a feature on one spool. The max I can use on a projector is 2400ft Fumeo 9139. I can go larger with the Spondon arms though.

I think the best one I had when I could only go to 1200ft was Goldfinger. This had a great point to change spools.

As to the leader and tails I did put them in a box for safe keeping, but never having sold any of my films, and I don't think I ever will. I have never had to find any.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 06, 2014, 04:54 PM:

Get yourself a few more Rik. You will really enjoy the benefits of showing films this way!

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 06, 2014, 05:42 PM:

Well I guess I am the odd man out here, as I prefer, for the most part, to keep my features on 4 x 600ft reels. This is probably due to the fact that most of my features are MGM musicals, and I really like to sit down and enjoy just a favourite 30 minute reel of musical numbers from these films. And I like to be able to show my films of any of my projectors and some of them can only handle 600ft reels. I do however have a few features mounted on 2 x 1200ft reels and on 2 x 800ft reels.
But for public shows, I always mount everything up on 1200ft reels. I have all my leaders and tails thrown in a shoe box, but I have never used them as I prefer just black leaders and tails.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 06, 2014, 05:48 PM:

Hey Paul, there is nothing wrong with either way, it's all just down to personal preference. For me I just love to watch a feature as you would see it at the cinema with one interval break at most.

[ September 07, 2014, 01:17 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on September 06, 2014, 06:00 PM:

Nothing wrong with that either Andrew, and you have the projector to do it, your beautiful big reel Beaulieu which is the epitome of a professional machine.
These days it is rare for me to sit thru a full super 8 feature, and my film viewing tends to be more like Desert Island Discs, so 600ft reels work out better for my personal screenings.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 06, 2014, 06:32 PM:

I would love to sit through that copy of Shane you have Paul! What a feature

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 06, 2014, 08:24 PM:

Yes "Shane" on the Beaulieu HTI is gorgeous. That is one beautiful print and for me..the only way to see it. Real film!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 07, 2014, 01:41 AM:

It would look sensational on even the biggest of screens with that light cannon of yours Rik, of that I am certain!

Going back to your original question, my method is to keep the original reels and spools (where applicable) or the boxes I have made myself with the 1200ft or 800ft spools inside them, in my film library. On each individual library reel I wrap the appropriate lead or tail or both where applicable.
Then I mount the full feature onto one or two of my Beaulieu 2300ft spools and leave it on those reel(s) in their cans until such time as I decide to "free" those reel(s) up again.

I have 12 Beaulieu spools so far, so I have around 10 features made up at any one time ready for screening. When I get fed up with those ten, I simply return them to their original or made up library boxes and do the same for another 10 features. I find this system serves me really well and by having quite a few of the large reels, means you don't have to keep taking films on and off reels so often.

12 of these 2300ft spools has so far proved sufficient for my needs, but as the library of features increases I will try and obtain a few more of the large reels again so there are not too many swaps and changes, however they must come with the square cans for me to be interested in buying them (not all that are sold necessarily have the cans) in order for my system to continue to work in the manner it does now.

I even print out A4 laminated glossy artwork replicas of the original artwork onto the square Beaulieu cans for each of my films and temporarily attach them to the can with Blu Tack just so I know what is in each can and to make the cans just as attractive as their library counterparts for when the appropriate screening time arrives.

It sounds like a lot of hassle and effort I know, but once everything is set up it is a really organized system that works really well for my needs and after the initial printing of artwork etc, it is just a case of cutting and splicing another 10 films every 6 months or so. Plus I only ever join features so the rest of the collection just stays as is in it's original box within the film library.

Prior to obtaining the Beaulieu, I got in the habit of trying to mount every feature I had onto it's own 1200ft or 800ft spools with their own boxes and artwork. This worked out far more costly and time consuming than the method I use now, so I much prefer doing it this way nowadays.

[ September 07, 2014, 03:04 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on September 07, 2014, 02:21 AM:

Ok! I did it. I sat through the entire "Gone with the Wind" feature. I put it on 4 x 1200ft reels and man..that is a beautiful print. Stunning and I saw GWTW almost 10 years ago on DVD and I don't remember anything about it. Seeing it on the big screen was like seeing it for the first time. And being able to NOT have to change reels every 600ft was a blessing. I much prefer seeing the feature with the least amount of breaks.
Thanks for all the replies. For now..I'll have to break it down and then piece it back together on large reels once I have more reels. Andrew..does that mean you have 2300 ft capable rewinds? I had to use the 1200ft because that is the maximum I can use on my Goko Editor.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on September 07, 2014, 02:47 AM:

I can of course, use my Spondon long play arms for rewinding when a clean is necessary,but for the most part I just rewind on the Beaulieu projector. It is rapid on rewind and can do 2300ft in under 2 minutes. You have to keep your hands well clear, it would probably take the end of your finger off as the film rewinds towards the end! I doubt it would pass today's Health & Safety legislation's ha ha.

I do all my joining once spliced using the projector.

Yours must be the same I presume Rik?

Posted by Brad Miller (Member # 2) on September 07, 2014, 07:53 PM:

A tip...always splice the removed leaders and tails to the end of the large reel. This way they never get lost.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on September 07, 2014, 10:27 PM:

Great tip Brad...Thx [Smile]

Posted by Michael De Angelis (Member # 91) on September 12, 2014, 11:40 PM:

Although I have 1200' capacity my viewing habits are now suited to small breaks, instead of a full 1200' foot reel at a clip.

I used to splice several trailers onto a larger reel but now I just thread a reel at a time through the GS and continue it onto the one 1200' pickup reel.

I've become too lazy to splice the reels together and then break it down again onto the original reels because I'm usually watching the films by myself.

Posted by David Roberts (Member # 197) on September 14, 2014, 10:52 AM:

I keep to 800ft. they are easier to handle,and I am totally taken by my latest projector,a Bauer t50,it just handles the film so nicely,and it has never messed up when threading,just does it every time.
I also never seem to have the time to sit down for more than around 40 min, ie 800ft.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on September 14, 2014, 11:56 AM:

I enjoy both. I can Watch small Pathé Baby carters of about a minute each and rewind them after viewing and I also like to Watch films without a break, so I put features on one spool.

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on January 28, 2017, 12:49 PM:

I came across this topic because I'd like to find a LPU and large capacity reels one day when I can afford it. This is to Andrew, I noticed your post about Beaulieu square cans. I'd be interested in finding them for storing; I already store 1200' reels in square cardboard boxes with artwork on them. But, I'm cautious about metal. I wonder how breathable these Beaulieu metal cans are. Will they not cause VS or color fade?

Posted by Phil Murat (Member # 5148) on January 28, 2017, 01:51 PM:

Hi Daniel,

Film fading as an aging issue when movies are storaged in typical Beaulieu square steel cans in not something I have to report yet after 30 years.
Also I put a thick paper inside (or cardboard )box, anyway not sure that change anything......

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 28, 2017, 02:11 PM:

Not if Polyester prints of course Daniel which is 90% of what I have.

I do have around 3 or 4 Acetate reels in these cans though, and so far at least, I've never noticed any smell from any of these but to be honest I only generally use these spools as a temporary arrangement and they all have plastic or cardboard library boxes for storage purposes after I've finished screening them a few times.

That is until I decide to do the rounds again with any particular film.

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on January 28, 2017, 07:00 PM:

I see. Sounds like fun to build a movie only for screening, like a real cinema. Another question: What diameter are the Beaulieu 2300' reels? Thanks.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 28, 2017, 07:11 PM:

They are around 15 inch diameter I'd say Daniel from memory.

I place them on big reels for a season as you may call it. That may last as long as 12 months sometimes depending on how often I'd like to view them.
At the end, they often go back onto 2x 1200ft spools in their library boxes or 4 x 600ft, 3x 800ft boxes etc etc.

Only films that came to me to begin with on these very large reels, stay that way, as some of the original leads and tails may no longer be present.

Posted by Alan Gouger (Member # 31) on January 28, 2017, 08:12 PM:

I enjoyed this thread. With the qty of S8 suppliers getting smaller are these 2300' reels still available?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 29, 2017, 04:56 AM:

Not from New now Alan. They do crop up on ebay Europe though from time to time.

In particular the odd ones here in the UK but also ebay Germany,Belgium, Spain and France.

Phil Sheard at CHC may also still have a couple.
I know he did have some not so long ago anyhow.

Incidentally to Daniel, the cans do not make an air tight seal by any means. The lids are just placed onto these cans and would easily slip open and off if they were stacked edge on,which of course is a no no on reels of this size.
So I'd say the films still are very breathable just as they would be in cardboard boxes.

The plastic containers probably offer the most sealed box, though again, many drill one or two holes in these to allow some air circulation.

[ January 29, 2017, 06:14 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on January 29, 2017, 06:41 AM:

Without sounding daft, is airtight good or bad for cine film in storage? [Confused]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 29, 2017, 06:55 AM:

Bad I'd say Tom. I believe film does need to breathe a little ideally.

All I've ever read suggests this anyhow. I've seen even the feature boxes themselves showing signs of mould when they've been stored in damp conditions with poor circulation.
Damp only accelerates this process or certainly constant change in temperature and humidity does.

Just like anything with stagnant air trapped inside it, it soon develops mould.
I suspect film is no different.

Posted by Steven J Kirk (Member # 1135) on January 29, 2017, 10:46 AM:

Consider leaving maybe four black frames on either side when making up on bigger spools. Then you can make changes later on like going back to 600ft parts and you are not losing any frames from the images. Otherwise if the join is right on the content every time a change is made the film is being eaten away a bit. You won't notice the black as even 8 frames is only a third of a second. Even two frames either side gives margin for error if you feel you don't want too much black...

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on January 29, 2017, 10:49 AM:

Thats ok then, i do everything i can to ensure good air circulation both in the room and around the films. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on January 29, 2017, 11:09 AM:

Over the years, ive now developed the knack of joining these without losing any frames, so for me, I just cut and replace the leaders exactly to the actual first frame.

I have received other people's films sent to me that have an odd blank frame in between joins so I know this is a popular method also.

If any film comes to me with its original leaders and tails intact, for some years now, I made a rule to myself never to cut them.
Then I just either change the reels or use two machines nowadays.

Most I have received over the years have had their leads and tails removed some time previously, so joining these poses no issue with the two frame C.I.R. splicer.

I find the "Jackro" tape is very very strong in use, but then equally, quite easily removed also without cutting, with a little due care and patience.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on January 29, 2017, 02:56 PM:

Super 8 large spool diameter sizes as follows:-
Beaulieu...38cm
Fumeo......41cm
Fumeo spools have a smaller core than the Beaulieu spools.

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