8mm Forum: 800ft. Sanyo Reels

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Topic: 800ft. Sanyo Reels

Michael Wright
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 184
From: Chorley, Lancashire, England
Registered: Dec 2008

posted December 18, 2014 04:11 AM

I recently bought a few of these reels. They have a considerably larger diameter core than normal. Is there a reason for this?

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 18, 2014 05:00 AM

All I know, is just like the Elmo ones they work better and smoother for the extra size on the diameter due to the larger core size. It makes them the best to use as a take up spool and puts less strain on the motor when rewinding.

One of the many reasons why I detest the so called Tony Churcher "Supaspools" is because they have a tiny unworkable core size for such a big reel that can cause lots of jitter at the gate when coming to the end of a fully loaded reel. This is especially the case when used on the Elmo St1200's.

The strange thing about this is that these and the GS1200's are precisely the range of machines that these reels were designed for given their 1200ft capacity, yet on mine, they were terrible in use and just kept losing the lower or upper loop near the end of a feature.

I always immediately transfer any film I get on one of these now straight onto the far superior Beaulieu smaller middle sized 1800ft spools.

[ December 18, 2014, 07:00 AM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted December 18, 2014 05:08 AM

Tony's Supaspools with their small centre were supposed to hold 1600ft of film.
I bought quite a few from him at Tadley Convention one year, however, they were so heavy (even when empty!) that they just slowed down and stopped when on the take-up of my Elmo ST1200.

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Maurice

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Paul Mason
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 540
From: Aldershot, Hampshire, UK
Registered: Nov 2013

posted December 18, 2014 07:22 AM

I have no experience with the Elmo or Beaulieu machines but the usual reason projector manufacturers recommend their own take-up spools is to ensure automatic threading onto the take-up hub without assistance. Of course independent spools may or may not work well with a particular machine. A well-known problem with small hubs is that film may be damaged by the pull of the projector on the film on such a spool eg spools of less than 400 feet on a 16mm projector.

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Paul.

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted December 18, 2014 11:36 AM

I guess Paul is refering to the pull from the take up spool which is increases as the spool diameter gets smaller. I learned this lesson years ago when using the small diameter core of the "Cyldon"
aluminium 400ft 16mm and 9.5mm spools and never ever agin used them for the take up spool. Ken Finch.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 18, 2014 11:56 AM

There are certain machines where the small diameter cores at the reel centers are absolutely deadly rewind-wise.

My Elmo ST-800 came without a takeup reel and struggled to rewind even 400 feet when I used a regular small core diameter reel. It would get most of the way and the clutch on the front spindle gave up and it ground to a halt.

Then I bought a 600 foot print and I was stuck to buy the Gepe 800 footer (Elmo 800 Foot Clone) for a takeup so I could watch it.

-problem solved.

The same machine rewinds full 800 footers all the time without breaking a sweat. It was just set up to use that reel.

The larger core diameter lets the takeup spin slower during rewind (-most importantly in that last part when the takeup is really spinning). Slower speed=lower required power=less film tension=happy front clutch.

The shame of it is there is a style of projecting multiple reels with one machine where when reel 1 is finished it is swapped to the back spindle and reel 2 is put on the front (and so on...). Unless everything is on a large core reel, this will be awfully painful when it's time to rewind.

I bet the ability of the takeup to grab the leader is part of it too, but then again if the leader is polyester it probably won't get close enough to grab anyway.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted December 18, 2014 12:20 PM

I don't believe much damage can be done very often by a take up reel. After all, more often than not on many large spool capacity machines like the Elmo ST,s there is barely enough torque in the take up hub mechanism to even take up the film properly once above around 1000ft.

More often I think the problems occur on these ridiculous small hub larger diameter reels because the top sprocket is having to work far too hard to pull the weight of the reel around at ridiculous speeds as the film comes to an end of say a 1600ft supaspool.

No such problems when using proper spools with the correct core diameter designed and manufactured by professionals.

The Beaulieu Posso spools run absolutely fine right up to their largest size of 2300ft. No problems with take up torque either due to a very large and powerful D.C. main drive motor.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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