8mm Forum: Should I do it?

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Topic: Should I do it?

Koen Keevel
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2014

posted January 30, 2015 02:17 PM

Hi all,

Would it be wise to switch from my Bauer T600 to an Elmo GS1200 MO projector?
And are there thing to check before I switch?

Cheers

Koen

EDIT - Sorry posted double

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Happy owner of a Bauer T610 and Hokushin SC-210

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted January 30, 2015 02:27 PM

Personally I`d stay with a bauer 600, much quieter, less to go wrong, with the 1,1 lens not so far away from the GS and spares a plenty around, especially in Germany.

Good luck.

Best Mark.

PS the 600 Bauer is also a lot less fussy with various film stocks and won`t scratch like the GS 1200, they usually need work to sort that out, the 600 film path is still scratch free long after the cam has worn out.

Now on the GS you also have nylong cogs going etc etc on top of the electronic issues.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 30, 2015 04:10 PM

Koen!

This is an entirely new idea in projector ownership!

I never switch, when I get a new one it just joins the herd!

Seriously, when the machines are as old as they are these days, having just one is asking to spend a lot of time watching TV while the one is under repair. It's like going on a long drive with no spare tire.

I think back in the days when brand new machines could cost a decent fraction of the price of a new car, "one" could be enough, but they were also new back then.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 30, 2015 04:27 PM

Kone.. don't do it! lol [Wink]

Just own both or better still...swap it for aT610. [Razz]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 30, 2015 06:49 PM

As soon as I read the first post of this thread I just knew what Andrew's response would be! [Big Grin]

Seriously though I have never owned Bauer's, but Andrew's high opinion of them carries a lot of weight, and the GS1200's can sometimes be a bear if not really well maintained. I suspect the Bauer's are somewhat like my Eumig 938, just keeps running with next to zero maintainance and totally trouble free. I can' t say that about eithet one of my GS1200'S, much as I like them.

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 30, 2015 07:28 PM

And that my friend is the only reason I do not own one by now.
I think they are a stunning machine the GS, but only while they reliably stay working and don't scratch film!

I am very happy these days with my choices and the three different machines I use regularly, these are the ones I would buy again if the right deal ever comes my way.

I must admit though, I am missing out somewhat on my optical prints these days, which I have a fair few of. I really could do with a fumeo just for these. Either that or a SH30.

By the way Paul, it isn't only my opinion, most of Germany would agree I suspect, though they, like me, are also partial to the Visacoustic's and the Beaulieu's

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 30, 2015 07:40 PM

The Bauer's are fantastic machines but the sound of the 600's have hum in them. Done away with the T610's.
The GS1200 is a beautiful machine and if you get a GOOD one then it will be brighter, Sharper (with the 1.0 lens), have optical capability, and 1200ft reel capacity.
If you can find a good one I would do it. Or better yet..get a T610 and have them BOTH live in Harmony together! [Smile]

Pedro on this forum went to a Super 8 shop and saw a new T610 and a new GS1200 projected side by side and he felt the GS1200 was a superior machine for large picture projection. The forum he posted on is somewhere floating on the internet as I read it in 2006 maybe?
Good luck!

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 30, 2015 07:52 PM

They are Rik, no doubt about that my friend. But the Bauer is, as said many many times, a much more "HOME" cinema friendly machine IMHO. In my case, as I use it in conjunction with the big reels, it works out even better than a GS aside from the fact it won't play optical sound films.

A friend of mine has a lovely GS machine and his films are all in great condition so I do know it's possible, but for me I really enjoy the Beaulieu nowadays for the extra brightness and the Bauer for quiet casual screenings and most of my recording needs.

Look at the end of the day, Phil of Classic has a T610 at £350 and a GS1200 at £900 right now. There is a reason why the GS is, in his opinion,worth £550 more! My nervousness with these machines in 2015 comes from the fact that for your £900 you are buying a non supported machine. That's a fair amount of cash even today where just as soon as a component fails, you are in between a rock and a hard place to try and find spares!

The 938 takes some beating for sound reproduction, that's for sure, but for me, it's just not quite bright or sharp enough using its standard fit lens.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 30, 2015 11:14 PM

I would try to own both machines for the reasons Steve gave.

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Dominique

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Clay Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 144
From: El Cerrito, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2014

posted January 31, 2015 01:09 AM

I vote for the Bauer but yeah........can we have both? Something nice to have the optical sound and the 1200 reel.

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Koen Keevel
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2014

posted January 31, 2015 01:29 AM

Thank you all for the wise answers!
the GS is for 600 euro sale. That's a lot of money. And having both for a short time is no problem but in the long time I don't have much space.
So If have to choose in the end.
But scratching my films is not an option......

I was more charmed by the idea of the sound system. thought it might be better. Then I think that I keep my eyes peeled for the 610.
Better audio is a thing what I'm looking for now.

Andrew did you say you use 1200 ft reels on the T610????
and are there any 8mm fils with optical sound?

Cheers

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Happy owner of a Bauer T610 and Hokushin SC-210

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted January 31, 2015 02:26 AM

Koen
€600 is quite a lot for a GS1200. Do not buy without seeing it running, many things can go wrong with these old projectors and could cost more to get them repaired.
Have a look to see if you can find a Fujicascope Sound SH30, this uses up to 1200ft spools, it also has optical sound in addition to magnetic.
There are quite a few films available with optical sound.

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Maurice

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 31, 2015 04:49 AM

Koen, in answer to your earlier questions, yes there are many Super 8 optical sound prints around. Some really attractive titles from the 80,s era that were never released on magnetic sound.

As for 1200ft reels on a T610, I use a long play unit with my Bauer that accepts reel sizes up to 3000ft which gives you approximately up to 2.5 hour sessions of uninterrupted viewing.
This obviously betters the GS 1200 1 hour max running time, which is why as a combined duo, I rate this match made in heaven above a GS1200 for use in the home. As said though, no optical sound facility sadly.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Koen Keevel
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2014

posted January 31, 2015 05:29 AM

Is your Long play unit something like this :
YouTube long play

Cheers

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Happy owner of a Bauer T610 and Hokushin SC-210

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 31, 2015 06:16 AM

There are different kind of Long Play Units. To my knowledge, there is only one model still being manufactured.

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Dominique

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 31, 2015 06:26 AM

I couldn't view your link for some reason Koen, but as Dominique says, there are quite a few different variations. Mine was made by a British company called Spondon (long since gone). Mine is very slender and the base plate fits the Bauer perfectly, almost as if it was designed specifically for use with these machines.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Koen Keevel
Film Handler

Posts: 51
From: Amsterdam, Netherlands
Registered: Jan 2014

posted January 31, 2015 06:55 AM

are there still some long play units made?

And did you get my PM Andrew?

cheers

Koen

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Happy owner of a Bauer T610 and Hokushin SC-210

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Jose Artiles
Master Film Handler

Posts: 357
From: Spain
Registered: Oct 2005

posted January 31, 2015 08:24 AM

Julio Castells still made long play units for súper 8 and 16mm in his labour house in Barcelona ,Spain.

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As Steven Spielberg says....
Nothing beats old school projection. Digital is just an imitation.

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted January 31, 2015 08:47 AM

Hello again Koen, yes I did thanks, I will reply right now.

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted January 31, 2015 09:50 AM

Koen
Here is a link to the description of one of my favourite projectors, the Fujicascope Sound SH30 which I mentioned above.
http://www.super8data.com/database/projectors_list/projectors_fuji/fujicascope_sh30.htm

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Maurice

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted January 31, 2015 09:58 AM

Jose, Julio Castells makes also Long Play Unots for 9,5 projectors.

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Dominique

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted January 31, 2015 10:45 AM

The Spanish long-play unit was mentioned and illustrated some time ago.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=print_topic;f=1;t=004820

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Maurice

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted February 01, 2015 10:35 AM

I have a Baur T610 and can vouch for its quetness compared with my Eumig and Bolex. It also ues the 15volt 150 watt lamp giving a brighter picture in my home cinema. I also have an Aga LS which appears to have an almost identical mechanism and is also a quiet runner but the film path through the magnetic heads are not so accessible for cleaning as the Baur. I would say "go for it " but don,t get rid of the other one if it works well. Ken Finch. [Smile]

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 01, 2015 11:24 AM

The Bauer drive mechanism is far more sophisticated than the Agfa Ken and DC not AC like the Agfa,but you are right about the film paths sharing some similarities.

Both are excellent, but remember, the Agfa Sonnector has one unique facility over almost any other machine in that it can rewind at full speed through the film path and the gate. A very useful feature for when you may want to watch just part of a reel. Notably, it does so without ever damaging a single frame of film! Quite remarkable really.

[ February 02, 2015, 06:52 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

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"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted February 01, 2015 12:34 PM

The biggest problems with the GS1200s are simply that they are over engineered for the use you require it for. If (and only if) you were to go with an Elmo you would be just as well off with a good ST1200HD M&O, these are much easier to maintain, however, (and it has been said many times), if you go with Elmo's, & I own three HDs, ensure they have been very well maintained because if they haven't & the green guides are all worn you will end up with scratching.

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