8mm Forum: CAM and nokken trial for the Bauer studioline series

This is topic CAM and nokken trial for the Bauer studioline series in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on March 03, 2015, 02:47 PM:

Hello readers of this forum,

On the basis af many requests we have developed a new CAM and nokken for the Bauer T5xx T6xx projectors.

We have built this set in two of our own projectors and these seem te work fine. Before I bring this to the market I want to be 100% sure that it is ok.

Therefore I want to do a small trial.
For the first 5 responders to this message you will get a set with CAM and nokken for free.

The only thing I ask is to put an order in our webshop (http://shop.van-eck.net) for any article, and add in the comment field that the want to set of CAM and nokken for free for the trial. We will add then this set to your order.

Please only participate if you have the time to build it in a Bauer projector and provide me feedback.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 03, 2015, 02:49 PM:

I will always be first on your list Edwin for quality replacement Bauer T610 parts, paid for or otherwise! [Smile]

I am more than happy to pay for mine Edwin as I cannot exchange my perfect recently replaced originals until the time is right.

A Beaulieu set wouldn't go a miss either Edwin! [Wink]

Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on March 24, 2015, 08:08 AM:

I have the Bauer T610 and would love to try this out.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on March 24, 2015, 08:44 AM:

Hi Pete,

That is ok!

The only thing I ask is to put an order in our webshop (http://shop.van-eck.net) for any article, and add in the comment field that the want to set of CAM and nokken for free for the trial. We will add then this set to your order.

Note also that we recently have launched new reel holders for the Bauer studioline projectors.

Bauer T500 T600 series, supply reel holder - super8, PP-0037 (new)

New improved version. On the original reel holder, reels with a slightly widther hole in the middle, tend to fall off.

Using this improved reel holder, the reels keep firm and stable on the projector.

Suitable for Bauer T500, 502, 510, 520, 525, 600, 610 and similarly designed models.

This part is newly designed using 3D printing technologies.

Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on March 24, 2015, 11:19 AM:

Thanks Edwin, I just ordered a belt set for the T610, it could use a new set.
The image is a little jittery on the projector, even with the gate pressure adjusted, so I will be interested to see if the replacement cam helps.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 24, 2015, 05:29 PM:

Almost certainly will Pete when fitted and adjusted correctly. [Smile]

Don't forget Pete, it is Cam and Cam Follower insert (fitted to the Claw arm) that will need fitting, not just Cam.

Often the Follower is more worn than the Cam.

Also make sure both extension springs are healthy at the time of fitting or replace.

Then a full set up will be required Pete for penetration and framing centralisation correction.

Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on March 24, 2015, 06:55 PM:

I'm new to this projector, so am still finding my way around it.
Where would I get the other parts I need?

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on March 24, 2015, 07:00 PM:

They come together Pete. I will send you the relevant literature tomorrow Pete to remove the shutter shaft and carry out the repair successfully if you follow it word for word and work to a high standard of accuracy.

Hopefully your springs will be ok but otherwise you are either having to beg FFR or Kinotechnik Rinser or indeed Edwin.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on May 27, 2015, 08:04 AM:

Hi readers, here an update on the development process of the new CAM and CAM follower for the Bauer projectors.
The first version (shipped to some members of this formum) works fine in one of our filmscanners. It is still running daily for several hours and works fine.

We have improved the CAM now that it also works in a normal projector where the shutter is not removed. This one is also working fine.

However, the noise level is higher then the original CAMs. We are working on some solutions to fix this. Hopefully we can solve this as well, and bring it to the market.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 27, 2015, 08:19 AM:

I find the surface finish to be far rougher on your replicas Edwin than the originals. If you can manufacture these to a smooth fine finish while retaining the polymer strength to make them durable throughout their lifespan, then I reckon you will have cracked it and the noise levels will hopefully subside.

I am still using the original parts FFR fitted to mine just over 2 years ago now. I use the projector for at least 8 hours a week and all is still fine by keeping on top of the lubrication using special Dow Corning synthetic grease and oil for use on nylon reciprocating parts in industry.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on July 15, 2015, 10:06 AM:

I think we are very close to completion the cam and nokken!
We have made an improved design and the noise level is now very much reduced. A bit more noise then the original CAM and nokken, but very acceptable! Also we changed the design, so that it can be used also (as the original ones) with a shutter.

It is running in our labs now and we are doing some additional stress-tests. I think we can bring these on the market (for shipment as parts you can build in yourself) within the next month.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on July 15, 2015, 02:36 PM:

Once completed, I will happily purchase the MK2 version of these Edwin.

When I come to having to fit one of these again, I would want it to be using the finest parts possible to get as close as possible to retaining the original running noise levels.

The prototype one I had from you, as reported, appeared as though it would run substantially noisier than the originals due to the surface finish being less smooth.

Hopefully this is now rectified on this modified version. [Smile]

[ July 15, 2015, 05:23 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 05, 2015, 10:04 AM:

Hi,

The Bauer CAM and Nokken are ready. I am now adding these to our webshop and I need your help with the following questions:
* What are the correct terms for these parts in English, Dutch, German,.... ?
* What are the official Bauer parts numbers for these parts?
(I have a repair guide for the Bauer series, but miss the spare parts manual. Also the copy of the repair guide I have is of bad quality and am looking for a better scan/copy)

This is how they look like:

And here a picture, build into a film projector. Note that on the right you see also that the Frame adjustment knob has been repaired with the 3d printed repair-kit for that (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=13RAPLlRGwU&feature=youtu.be )

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 05, 2015, 10:13 AM:

Shutter Shaft Cam and Claw Arm Follower in English Edwin, to give them their full correct titles.

Cam & Follower does it though Edwin. Everyone knows them as this here.

Give me until tonight to dig out the service manual Edwin for original part numbers unless someone posts them first. If memory serves me correctly, I don't remember seeing actual part numbers in my Bauer service manual. It is nowhere near as comprehensive as the Beaulieu or Elmo service manuals, no test points or values given for the electronics etc etc.

Nice work BTW!

Posted by Maurizio Di Cintio (Member # 144) on August 05, 2015, 10:13 AM:

Even though I am not the most aknowledgeable person on these, I'd say "Shutter cam" and "shutter cam follower", the latter being the part to be fitted to the claw arm. Am I correct, fellas?

Simoultaneous posts from me and Andrew: moderators plese delete mine. Thank you

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 05, 2015, 10:15 AM:

Yours is just fine Maurizio! [Wink]

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 06, 2015, 04:39 AM:

Thanks for your suggestions!

The Bauer Shutter Shaft Cam and Claw Arm Follower are now ready for sale!

I have updated the spare part finder with these new parts:
http://www.van-eck.net/itable.php?lang=nl&size=0&cat=film&merk=13&type=T502%20Automatic%20Duoplay

I have currently 20 of these parts each on stock. Orders we get today can be delivered this week. Later orders are processed after our vacation

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 04:49 AM:

I shall order a set later today Edwin. Thanks for the update.

No original part numbers by the way in my service manual unfortunately.

The link you sent Edwin, does not show these parts yet unfortunately. Please let us know when updated so we place our orders.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 06, 2015, 05:05 AM:

The link should be working, but to be sure, here is the link to the English version of the Bauer T502 spare part finder:
(maybe press F5 in the browser)

http://www.van-eck.net/itable.php?lang=en&size=0&cat=film&merk=13&type=T502%20Automatic%20Duoplay

Direct links to the webshop:
http://shop.van-eck.net/?_globalsearch=pp-0015
http://shop.van-eck.net/?_globalsearch=pp-0020

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 05:53 AM:

The link worked Edwin and took me to the index page for all the Bauer machines. But when you then go to the T610 page, the Cam & Nok were not listed yet?

Lots of other parts, framer kit, lampholder, reel hub etc etc but not yet the Cam & Nok unless my eyes deceived me.

I've just tried again and still cannot find these specific parts under T610 section.

However, the direct link to these parts works fine Edwin so I can at least now place the order later today thanks.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 06, 2015, 06:04 AM:

Ok. Good!
Products are listed for the Bauer T502 projector (for the other Bauer studioline projectors,it will be added soon also)

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 06:08 AM:

Edwin, do you stock small bottles of silicone oil for keeping the felt pad soaked on these?

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 06, 2015, 06:15 AM:

Good that you ask that.
Instead of silicone oil we use Molykote G-4500 grease to lubricate the moving parts in the Bauer film projectors.
It is very important that there is planty of lubricant on the shutter cam shaft and felt pad.
See:
http://shop.van-eck.net/?_globalsearch=molykote

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 06:30 AM:

Yes I use Dow Corning Molykote grease myself to lubricate the cam on these and have been doing since first owning one, but I think grease is too thick to absorb into the felt pad as it should and therefore I have been using silicone oil as Bauer did just on the felt pad but I was just wondering if you stocked the oil.

It can be got elsewhere but I would have picked up a small bottle from you had you have stocked it.

The original special silicone grease used by Bauer was a Bosch product but can no longer be found. The Dow Corning Molykote is the best present day alternative for the Nok & Cam I have found over the years.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 06, 2015, 07:05 AM:

Thx. Add silicone oil later to our assortment!

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 07:14 AM:

When I send you my projector Edwin i will include the service manual in the packaging.

This way you will be able to get a scan from it before returning both back to me.

Hopefully in glorious Stereo! [Big Grin]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 06, 2015, 10:29 AM:

Tried purchasing the three products I require but couldn't get past stage 2 at the check out???

Just kept saying "e mail address already in use, please use another e mail address".

I cannot remember whether or not I have created a password with you in the past so if I have please can you mail it to me again just so I can get these goods ordered today before the close of business please Edwin.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 07, 2015, 06:26 AM:

All sorted out and paid for now Edwin thanks. Will these be sent before you go on holiday?

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 07, 2015, 07:29 AM:

Hi Andrew, packed and posted!
Talk to you all in a couple of weeks.

p.s. the guide rollers for use with longplay units are in production. Hope to have some news here in September!

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 07, 2015, 07:32 AM:

Happy holiday, Edwin !

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 07, 2015, 07:58 AM:

Hab a fab time Edwin, see you back here in a few weeks. [Smile]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on August 14, 2015, 04:22 AM:

Having received these parts from Edwin now, it is interesting to see how he has changed the design on the later set of followers to the original prototype he put out for trial.

The earlier type looks more like a replica design of the original Bauer ones whereas the new type look to have a completely different profile while sitting on the cam and just by looking at it, you would assume it would run far noisier than the other type as there is far more surface area contact between the Follower and the Cam?

It is interesting that Edwin claims the newer type run smoother and quieter and will run well with the original shutter fitted unlike his first attempts.

All very strange but I suppose we can only find out more once Edwin returns from holiday [Confused]

Here are what the original Bauer parts look like when new:

As you can see from the various angles shown, the Follower only has two very small contact points similar to Edwins first photo's of his Prototype here.

His latest version appears considerably different to these and has a much greater amount of the Follower in contact with the cam as you can see from Edwin's latest photographs of these newer versions.

It would be interested to hear the views of anyone who has actually fitted either of these new Parts from Edwin.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on August 31, 2015, 02:57 AM:

The newest cam followers have a different design then the original and early prototypes.

This has to do with the roughness of 3D prints. These are a bit less smooth as tradional moulded parts. The 3D printed prototype, which was in essential a copy of the orinal ones made a lot of noise due to the less smooth surface.

In the current design (the one which is now commerically available and which you have, Andrew) the follower has a new design which compensates for the roughness of the surface with 3D printing. This makes it a lot more silent then the trial part. No yet as silent as the original, but good enough.

We have now replaced the cams and cam follower in 3 of our filmscanners with the 3D printed ones and these work perfectly with a little more noise then the original ones.

Due time, you see the noise level decreasing, as the parts get a bit smoother in operation.

Posted by Edwin van Eck (Member # 4690) on April 22, 2016, 01:31 PM:

Replacing the cam and cam-follower is not very easy.
But, we have now make a video of how to do it yourself, see:

https://youtu.be/8cwFnltBYZ8

Please note that after this, you need to carefully adjust the claw according the service manual.

[ April 23, 2016, 07:15 AM: Message edited by: Edwin van Eck ]

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