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Topic: Hello! New member with a question...

Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted April 07, 2017 06:03 AM

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Hi Guys,

This is my first post here, although I've been enjoying the forum as a lurker for some time.

My story probably isn't anything unique. My folks got me a plasticky Italian projector when I was a kid and I'll never forget the absolute magic of seeing the Mountain Films King Kong digest being projected against the living room wall on Christmas morning. I proceeded to run it and the (woefully small) handful of other films I managed to collect over the next few years to near destruction. Then the VHS revolution arrived and it was bye bye flickering cine film.

Now I have a pretty good modern home cinema set up....hi-def 3D digital projector and the kind of nice 7.1 surround sound that would make my eight-year old self's brain melt!

And yet...

I came across a good condition Eumig 501 in a second-hand shop a couple of years ago and couldn't resist it. I dug out that old Kong reel and was amazed at how much I still loved it. There's something indefinably wonderful about film that makes the experience worth whatever deficiencies it has compared to modern tech.

Well, they say, happiness is a childhood dream fulfilled and I've since been happily collecting every film my younger self wished I'd owned from an old Super 8 brochure I've kept since the 70s. I used to pore over that thing for hours, soaking up all that amazing cover art and fantasising about one day owning a sound projector. I've since acquired a Chinon 6100Z machine and a nicely refurbished EUMIG S810D LUX. My wife finds this hobby charming but I have to pick my moments carefully if I'm going to sit her or my nine year old daughter down in front of something. To me though, there's nothing quite like the smell of film being warmed by a hot lamp.

Anyway, I've been reading up on the differing views expressed here about scope films and really wanted to test the waters myself. Can anyone who's technically knowledgeable recommend what type lens to invest in for either of my sound projectors? Any thoughts much appreciated.

Gary
[Smile]

[Smile]

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 07, 2017 06:09 AM

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Gary
You may care to see my recent reply regarding my thoughts on 'scope.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011403

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Maurice

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Joe Taffis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1592
From: United States
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 07, 2017 07:17 AM

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Hi Gary,
First of all, welcome to the forum. Before you invest in a scope lens, and probably a holder for it, you should consider what kind of films are available in super 8 CinemaScope, if you're interested in those films, and how many scope films you actually plan on owning. The anamorphic lenses and holders can be expensive. Personally, I use an Elmo scope and have also used a Singer 16D lens for super 8 and 16mm. Both are very good. There are many others...

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Joe Taffis

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 07, 2017 11:14 AM

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Gary ...

First off, welcome!

Secondly, though everyone would LOVE to have a scope lense specifically designed for super 8, (and they are out there), you can actually tend to get a scope lense designed for 16MM or even 35MM for LESS than you would pay for a super 8 lense, and you can always make a brace or bracket for any size lense for the front of you're projector. [Smile]

[Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 07, 2017 12:06 PM

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Ossi, I'm not sure that a 35 mm scope lens would work on a super 8 projector.

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Dominique

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 07, 2017 12:09 PM

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I'll have to see if i can get Doug to put up a few shots for you, of my set-up for my 35Mm scope lense and bracket i made for the front of my Chinon 9500. [Smile]

[Smile]

I'm not sure if i posted those shots here or on another film forum site. I'll look into it.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 07, 2017 03:38 PM

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Dom, 35mm scope lens will work. It even has sharper image. I have tried it.

The downside is since all 35mm lens comming with long barrel, most likely the screening with 8mm projector on zoom out mode (= biggest picture size) will hit edge of the lense resulting vignette.

So to avoid vignetting we can only set on zoom in (smallest to medium).

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Martin Davey
Film Handler

Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011

posted April 07, 2017 03:43 PM

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I would have thought that the thicker, professional optics in the 35mm lens would steal a lot of the light producing an underwhelming image. They are designed for use with 1 kw upwards ,I imagine, of light going through them. The compression factor (x2) would be the same however.
The OP would need at least a 150w lamp for a super 8 scope lens. I have to say that projecting digitally with a sharp picture does spoil oneself with the result that scope from S8 looks quite painful to watch now days, impressive undoubtedly a few decades ago. I rarely watch scope material for this reason, and also for the fact that the top and bottom of the image are cropped, both on S8 and 16mm (unless watching cinevision prints). I tend to stick to academy films.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 07, 2017 04:38 PM

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Thanks for sharing that, Winbert. I thought that members said in the past that 35 mm scope lenses were not suitable for super 8.

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Dominique

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 07, 2017 04:46 PM

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Hi Gary

First welcome to the forum [Smile]

[Smile]

Here is a short video I put on Vimeo regarding the use of an old cinema 35mm Scope lens projected at a distance of 7.5 meters

https://vimeo.com/195227404

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 07, 2017 04:54 PM

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Yes, 35mm scope lens is not suitable in terms of size. There is no such bracket that can hold the lens in front of this relatively small projector. I am using my hand to hold the lens for a couple minute. If we decide to use a 35mm scope lense then we have to make our own craddle (not a bracket) to sit the lens in front of our 8mm main lens.

No matter using 8mm,16mm or 35mm lens, you need to have brighter light output since unsqueezing picture will take out so much brightness. So ideally 150w is the minimum output.

Cheers,

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Winbert

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

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From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted April 07, 2017 06:12 PM

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Graham, you have Super 8 trailer on super 8 ! Nice film to have !

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Dominique

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Graham Ritchie
Film God

Posts: 4001
From: New Zealand
Registered: Feb 2006

posted April 07, 2017 07:09 PM

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Thanks Dominique [Smile]

[Smile]

I am still kicking myself for letting the 35mm print of Super8 the movie slip through my fingers [Frown]

[Frown]

When the cinema was closing I was really hoping they would not ask for the print back..just sort of forget about it [Wink]

[Wink]

anyway about a week before we closed they asked for it to be returned [Frown]

[Frown]

just another week.. me and that print would have dissapeared into the sunset [Cool]

[Cool]

after all they did with it was scrap it

I still have the 35mm trls though [Cool]

[Cool]

I came across this photo I took using an Proskar Anamorphic on my ST180 projector. Even though it only has a 100watt lamp, it works well on a small screen. The attachement bracket I made myself

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Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted April 08, 2017 04:30 AM

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Thanks everyone for the warm welcome and all the info.

This aspect of Super 8 is clearly a bit more complicated than I thought. I just assumed as scope prints were in circulation that dedicated lenses would be relatively easy to acquire. It's interesting to see the ingenious lengths some folk have gone to to make their lenses compatible. I have to say there's something about a super 8 projector kitted out with a beefy, tubular 35mm lens that speaks to the frustrated cinema manager in me. It's also clear this may take some more funds than I was expecting.

Still, research and experimentation is half the fun with cine film so I think I'll keep reading and pursue this as a long term project. Thanks again!

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted April 08, 2017 04:48 AM

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Gary
Do not be taken in by adverts for old cinema 'scope lenses at a cheap price. As they were designed for long throws in cinemas they are unlikely to be able to focus down to a short length in an average living room.
Suitable lenses for home use are in great demand which reflect their high prices.

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Maurice

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Melvin England
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 707
From: Hull, East Yorkshire, UK
Registered: Feb 2016

posted April 08, 2017 07:48 AM

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Gary - You wouldn't go too wrong by purchasing a Kiptagon-Iscomorphot 2x 'scope lens.
Designed to fit most 32.5mm projector barrels, it was recommended by Tony Shapps of The Widescreen Centre.

They are not cheap, but do surface at the November Blackpool Film Collectors Convention occasionally, which, of course, you are most welcome to attend if not doing so already.

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"My name is for my friends!"

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted April 08, 2017 10:47 AM

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Actually Maurice, my 35MM Mollier German scope lense is adjustable from anywhere from 6 feet to "infinity" (so to speak), though I'd never need to look at anything at that far of a distance. That and, of course a super 8 Eumig projector lamp would be good beyond approvimately 20 feet or so.

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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Gary Baker
Film Handler

Posts: 34
From: Glasgow, Scotland
Registered: Apr 2017

posted April 09, 2017 08:04 AM

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This is all good stuff, thanks. I shall keep an eye out for something that might suit [Smile]

[Smile]

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