8mm Forum: Am I washing off the colors by using isopropyl alcohol?

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Topic: Am I washing off the colors by using isopropyl alcohol?

Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 29, 2017 04:18 PM

I've been using 91% isopropyl alcohol to clean my films but I noticed rainbow color stains on the cloth. Does this mean I'm washing off the colors?
I prefer non-toxic cleaners that don't require gloves. Is there one better than isopropyl alcohol?

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016

posted July 29, 2017 04:57 PM

I use 100% Isopropyl Alcolhol to clean the gates and film paths on projectors. I've never thought of using it to clean films. You're better off using something safer like FilmGuard as it not only cleans but lubricates as well.

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 29, 2017 05:36 PM

I don't need the lubrication plus they are oily, toxic and require gloves.

I found out this is a normal side effect for old films. I guess the dye disintegrates after many years.

[ July 30, 2017, 12:42 AM: Message edited by: Robert Lee ]

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted July 30, 2017 07:39 AM

rainbow stains on the cloth should be an alarm bell.
I think IPA is far too strong.
I have a friend who is head of restoration at the BFI, I asked him about cleaning my 8mm.
He said if all I have is a damp microfibre cloth moisend with de ionised water, that would take the dust and hairs off.
Unless you are going for deep cleaning, then you realy do need proper film cleaning liquid.
IPA will also disolve any sound track on your films

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 09:29 AM

But pretty much all film cleaning liquid are toxic and requires gloves, so I rather clean with a damp cloth using filtered tap water.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 30, 2017 10:25 AM

Filmguard is the exception, very much non toxic at all and very safe, no harmful vapours. [Wink]

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 10:30 AM

I didn't know that. Is Filmguard oily like Film Renew? Is it fast drying like IPA? I might get it if it's not oily and fast drying.

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted July 30, 2017 10:54 AM

I would never recommend using any form of water to clean film. I have one or two films that have suffered water damage and it destroys the emulsion, both picture image and sound track. Recommended film cleaning liquids may be oily but they will not damage the emulsion and they do the intended job.

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted July 30, 2017 11:46 AM

Back in the 70's I used to treat my films with 2.22. This left on very light brown mark from the magnetic stripes and on secondhand prints cleaned them nicely. You could see the dirt on the cloth. You only needed to clean them once. Now forty years or so later they still have the lubrication on them, but to me it doesn't seem oily. Sadly it properly was toxic due to the fumes.

One of my 16mm prints has the same problem with the colour coming off at the time it had no vinegar smell, but was warped on the last reel. The cleaner I used on this would be Vita Film or Film Renew?

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 11:49 AM

Looks like IPA is the only choice for non-oily, fast drying cleaning liquid. IPA has good feedback from several internet forums on cleaning film.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 30, 2017 12:04 PM

You may find this thread useful to,

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011621#000000

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 12:16 PM

This website doesn't recommend filmguard, so I assume it's not a reliable site? http://16mmfilminfo.com/clean.html

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Mike Spice
Master Film Handler

Posts: 421
From: none of your business
Registered: Jun 2017

posted July 30, 2017 02:08 PM

In response to Terry Sills saying water should never be used and water damage...tap water no, no, no.. of course...
My best friend is the head of the BFI film restoration at the Berkhampstead division.
He is of the mind that de ionised water on a microfibre cloth will not do any damage to your films...
There is a distinct difference to 'water damage' and a microfibre cloth moistened with de ionised water to wipe the dust of a film....
All of my films have been wiped this way and are looking very good...

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 30, 2017 03:28 PM

Blimy Robert, I havnt seen that before, now you got me thinking now. all 500+ of my films have been treated using filmguard [Confused]

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 03:50 PM

Haha, nice sarcasm. I'll stick with IPA, I don't need or want the oily lubrication anyway. My last resort cleaning solution will be Edwal Anti-Stat Film Cleaner if IPA is not desired.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 30, 2017 03:59 PM

Hey Robert, no sarcasm intended at all, i genuinely havnt read that before and have been using filmguard for years & reading that link is making me think, should i be using it?And should i be reapplying
every few years?

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Will Trenfield
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 506
From: Shrewsbury, Shropshire, UK
Registered: Mar 2016

posted July 30, 2017 06:54 PM

At the end of that article referred to it says

" Kodak cautions against the use of any alcohol as a film cleaner stating that "some types can soften the emulsion, or the base, and can increase the risk of abrasion during the cleaning process". After five years of use the Author has failed to ever experience any such result with Isopropyl Alcohol.

My precious family films date back to 1965 so I'm not going to risk using it.

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted July 30, 2017 07:41 PM

Of course I won't use cheap products for family treasures but for films you don't care much about, it's acceptable plus the author stated he didn't experience any of that bad effect of IPA.

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted July 31, 2017 04:46 AM

Be careful about calling IsoPropyl Alcohol IPA, it also means Idia Pale Ale a strong hoppy beer. I wouldn't want to clean my films with that, they's end up a sticky mess.

Also I wouldn't say I've never had any bad effects of IPA (the beer) after a few pints I don't feel too steady. :-)

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted July 31, 2017 07:45 AM

Mike
The water damage to my films was not caused by tap water but from being stored in a damp cellar. While I do not dispute what you say about the BFI using ionised water I do not understand the science of it. Ionised water is the same as distilled water I believe. It's just water with impurities removed, but it's still h2o - water. So is it the impurities that cause the damage?

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 31, 2017 11:52 AM

I agree with Will, early on there. Remember that, while alcohol may be a cheaper way to clean a film, it also is a good way to dry out you're film prints in quick manner, and that really can't be good for you're films. Yes, most film cleaner contain alcohol, but they also combine that with numerous other film preserving chemicals as well. [Smile]

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted July 31, 2017 01:58 PM

Just to add 2.22 you could not use tape splices after you had treated the film. They did sell a solvent type product which removed the 2.22 and left the film very clean and dry.

Anyone who bought films from DCR (Dave West) on the Isle Of Wight he used to treat his new films.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted July 31, 2017 03:20 PM

we used 222 for years and i did and do swear by it. I have no idea how much damage i have done to myself using this in a house with not much ventilation. it had deadly fumes. But i do find filmguard to be the way forward. One thing Bill Parsons did say to me a few years back is that all projectors need films to be lubricated and not everyone seems to think this, i only d
say that due to the number of films i have bought second hand that have been bone dry and clearly not cleaned for years.
Even Derann recommended a quick clean with a good cleaner before viewing a brand new print.

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William Olson
Master Film Handler

Posts: 287
From: Poughkeepsie, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2010

posted August 04, 2017 09:13 AM

Years ago, I cleaned one of the films I shot on Kodachrome with isopoyl alcohol. It dried out the film and made it very brittle. I only use FilmGuard now.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted August 04, 2017 09:33 AM

In the fifties when we received, in my cinema, brand new 35mm release prints straight from the labs we used to wax the perforations.
Any new ads for insertion in the ad reel were put on their side and a thin amount of vaseline was applied to either side, just enough to penetrate across the perforations. This was in the days when we kept the ad reel, and took out old ads, and put in new ads.

In all my years collecting sub-standard films I have never felt the need to lubricate any; as regard to cleaning, only the most obvious which needed attention were cleaned with a coating from a cloth lightly soaked in isopropyl alcohol.
I have never known colour to be removed from a film in such circumstances.

--------------------
Maurice

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