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Topic: Elmo Projectors Question
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Adrian Winchester
Film God
Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004
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posted March 06, 2018 05:57 PM
I suspect one factor why you hear about Elmos breaking down relatively frequently is the sheer number in circulation, and the fact that they were selling Super 8 sound projectors right up to the start of the 1990s, which is years beyond the time that many other companies ceased production. I could be wrong but if a survey of members was undertaken here, asking them to state the makers of the S8 projectors they own, I'd guess that the Elmo number would be significantly higher than any other make.
I've mostly used them for S8 projection and I'd say they have good points that perhaps tend to make owners quite forgiving of their faults. That certainly applies to me because I've certainly had my share of ones going wrong - one so seriously that even Bill Parsons felt it was best to write it off, which of course rarely happened!
[ March 07, 2018, 06:28 AM: Message edited by: Adrian Winchester ]
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Adrian Winchester
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Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted March 06, 2018 07:01 PM
I have to agree with Chip's very balanced comments about the GS1200. I have several Eumig projectors which are great machines, but the GS is the king of the hill in terms of brightness, spool capacity, and build quality, and I believe it will outlive all the other projectors that I have. It is built like a high end 16mm machine. It has a whole bunch of motors, switches, and relays, and as Chip correctly points out, about 90% of GS problems come back to these components, which are relatively easy to fix. When fully functional it is a joy to use, and does a stellar job. And a lot of the GS problems are due to the fact that they are still around, still working, whereas lesser projectors have fallen by the way.
Yes, I have been critical in the past of the GS' complexity, which certainly impacts its reliability, but there is no doubt that it is one of a handful of truly great super 8 sound projectors.
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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted March 07, 2018 12:03 PM
We have always used the best Elmo workhorse, the ST1200HD's, a great machine, very good light output and sound, every projector has its downside. Did anyone who still subscribes to the film collector magazine bother reading the item i did on Bill Parsons?
If you did you will have also read the line, "all projectors can scratch and all have there ups and downs". The GS is machine i always wanted but the the advice for me years ago from a man who knows was, the GS is a great machine once its been modified, unless your savy with electronics sending them away for repairs can be expensive, assuming you can get the parts, we dont record so dont the complex bollocks they have nor do we own more than 4 or 5 stereo films so the HD1200 via a good old hifi pioneer stereo amp does everything we need, oh, and so far in 40 years, (aside servicing) i have not been let down by one yet.
These are reasonably easy to fix and they also have the same advantage as the GS1200 in that they also take a good 1200ft spool ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
As for all the ones that are meant to keep breaking down i have to ask the question, Do people just use these things and never do a basic service? What models are they that keep going wrong?
Please enlighten me ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
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Alan Rik
Film God
Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted March 07, 2018 12:43 PM
I remember a discussion that a former member here had about projectors. He was saying over and over that really the only machine he felt was worthy of its name as a professional Super 8 machine was the Fumeo.
And by "Professional" he meant that one that was designed as a workhorse to play for hours upon hours with minimal upkeep. And he knew this because he really was/is an avid collector. He would put so many hours on all his projectors that eventually they burnt out.
I think with the exception of the Fumeo many of the projectors we are using have professional "Features" but they are not meant to be work horses in the field to the extent that collector was using his equipment.
So many Elmo's were sold and I have been very fortunate in that all the ones that I have purchased as working 100% really were working 100% for the most part.For the GS1200 I have had to replace 2 cogs, 2 head pressers, one rewind motor board, one speed motor board, one ESS module, and one needed to have a trace repaired to get its Stereo sound back.
For a machine with all the bells and whistles to only have to do that after almost 40 years is truly amazing. I have never had a bad motor, bad relay, bad board, etc.
The Elmo machine is truly well designed. Eventually if the know how for repair goes out the GS will be in a landfill one day-which would leave the ST1200.
I remember the first review I ever read of the Elmo ST1200D by Lenny Lipton. He writes, "The image and sound are better than anything else i have ever seen or heard. With the f 1.4 25-50mm zoom projection lens ($150), the image is brighter and sharper out to the corners than any other off-the shelf super 8 projector. And the sound is superb. There is no flutter and just a trace of hiss. Fidelity for the 12 watt amplifier is very good. The sound is full and rich."
That is the review that made me go into Leo's Stereo in Oakland California in 1983 to see it and there it was! If you don't need the recording and all the bells and whistles the Elmo ST1200 is another really incredible machine. And if you really go basic, I almost never see a dead ST180E. All you do is change the belts and the machine is up and running. That to me is a testament to build quality.
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Tom Photiou
Film God
Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003
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posted March 07, 2018 02:33 PM
Thank you Graham,
i always wanted to ensure that what i put across was not any expertise at all, in fact, i am always the first to admit i am absolutely not an expert in any such form on these machines, what i enjoyed doing was reading the service manual over and over again so i could learn as much as i could. Then, i would simply pick out sections and share it in my own words through those magazines. My own had the shutter rubber problem and when i spoke to a few people who told me if you take off the rubber the advantage is it wont be there to wear off again but you would need a modified lower pulley to take up speed issue etc etc, i asked a local engineer who then went onto making me 10, (i think) perfect as good as the originals, if not better improved, 24fps clutch wheels and lower pulleys. At this time i had one genuine Elmo one in my stock to copy.
Getting all those sold, keeping a few myself, really gave me quite a buzz especially when Kieth Wilton reviewed one and gave it the big thumbs up. Made it all worth while and i will add i didn't make or lose any money, it was a great time getting it all done.
As for my own, i have dabbled into the basics for servicing but it always came back 100% like new when Bill Parsons worked his magic on it.
My main machine has now had as much done to it as anyone could do, new Genuine square belts, shutter, pulley, 24 fps clutch, modified lamp holder, new sound head pressure pad assembly, rear green guides, new white rollers, an almost new aperture plate, new pressure pad springs, a couple of modifications to the amp as there was a fault, (a whistle only through the speakers), this had a part bridged in order to save a bigger repair, i told Bill i am not interested ever in using the optical sound or recording so all this was by passed, the same fault will now not re-occur. The shutter fitted was one that i bought as an exchange unit, this is where an original is turned on a lathe, the rubber removed and the outer edge lightly shave so the surface is flat rather than slightly rounded. This way the two clutches make a better contact and results in a quieter run.
Back to the point, as mentioned, these machines must all be around 35/40 years old now, for anything mechanical to keep running without any problems or replacement parts fitted is expecting a mirical. I am sure we would all love to own a fumeo or the top end Beaulies etc but unfortunately i for one, aint made of money. I am hoping the three 1200HD's will see us out, but with 16mm in the collection now it does give my Elmo a bit of a rest. BUT, sometimes, when these sort of mechanical items are not used for several months, thats when you can get a problem. You can keep all of these machines up to speed but something totally unexpected can go wrong with them rendering the machine for nothing but a spares box or the scrap pile. Just like an older car.
On a footnote, i am always amazed to see how many projectors from the 1940's, 50s and 60s are still in good use. No one builds stuff like our projectors anymore.
[ March 08, 2018, 06:35 AM: Message edited by: Tom Photiou ]
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