8mm Forum: New-to-me Elmo ST-1200HD needs 1200' takeup reel and fix for rubber parts gone to goo

This is topic New-to-me Elmo ST-1200HD needs 1200' takeup reel and fix for rubber parts gone to goo in forum 8mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 15, 2018, 04:25 PM:

UPDATE: Changed thread title.

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All these years I've used an Elmo ST-180e that I bought at a Goodwill store when the first Bush was president. But tomorrow I take delivery of an ST-1200HD, an eBay purchase. Hope it arrives in one piece and needs minimum maintenance, but we shall see.

Not sure if it's coming with a 1200-foot takeup reel. Fingers crossed. I could ask the seller, but at this point I'll just see what's in the box tomorrow. Also coming this week from a different seller is a print of Sons of the Desert mounted on a 1200' and another 600' reel.

So.... enough beating around the bush. Is there a good source for 1200' reels these days? Or is it a matter of watching eBay?

[ July 16, 2018, 02:17 PM: Message edited by: Mike Brantley ]

Posted by Chip Gelmini (Member # 44) on July 15, 2018, 08:41 PM:

Steve Osborne might have some there is also a plastic reel with a smaller hub that can work it is the same size as a 1200 foot. I would be careful running full reels at first until you know how good the belts are inside. If you have to change one belt make certain to change them ALL.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 15, 2018, 09:21 PM:

Mike,

You should try for Elmo 1200 foot reels. They are aluminum and easily as light as a plastic reel, but stay much straighter.

This is what I use as a 1200' take-up, and in a perfect world I'd use nothing else for 1200' reels in any situation.

The ST-1200s do fine with an 800 foot take-up too. This is what a did for a while until a feature on 1200 foot reels showed up and fate forced my hand.

I'm with Chip here: it's usually worthwhile trying Steve Osborne in cases like this.

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 15, 2018, 09:53 PM:

Thanks, guys. I'll hit up Steve soon. Crossing my fingers that I am lucky and I get a nice takeup reel with the projector. Will find out tomorrow.

I am prepared to order a spare set of belts whether the machine needs them right away or not. And spare lamps. Hoping the guides and such are not worn, but will find out.

This weekend my B&H 2592 returned home to me with a new wormgear, so today I was looking at 16mm stuff. Tomorrow will be a Super 8 day!

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on July 16, 2018, 12:01 AM:

The plastic reel made by Taylor reel is so noisy and sometimes warping. Not a good reel.

My 2 cents opinion.

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 16, 2018, 01:45 PM:

Ruh roh. Projector arrived today. No takeup reel but that's a much lesser problem than the black goo rubber around the shutter that gets slung all over the place when run.

Searching old threads now to educate myself on what to do about this. Not putting any film through this machine yet, but other than the goo all functions SEEM to work. Looks to me like the projector has "low miles." Just battling the ravages of time with the black goo.

UPDATE: Took the back off the projector. Wow, that part alone is quite a bit thicker and heftier than the same piece on my ST-180. Once inside I see that the belts also are gooey. First order of business will be taking clear pictures of where the belts go before I remove the old ones and start cleaning off all the black melted rubber. I'll post pictures when I get that far.

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 16, 2018, 02:55 PM:

Mike, there are a couple of options, Here is one i have done a few times now,

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=011672#000000

Hopefully other blokes in the USA will pop up there versions of dealing with this. Hope this helps. [Wink]

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 16, 2018, 03:02 PM:

Thanks, Tom. I will read that thread next.

I also just read this from Steve, and that looks very promising:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=010066

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on July 16, 2018, 03:11 PM:

Your welcome Mike, Steve's thread was the other one i was trying to find for you so well done for, i can also bookmark it for future reference.
The only thing i will add is, if you decide to remove the the outer rubber all together, (my preferred option as you wont ever need to worry about it again), you will need to ensure the outer edge of the shutter is flat. Mine are done on a lathe by a third party engineer and this ensure a dead smooth run and a very quite one.
Bill Parsons often commented on how my HD1200 is one of the quietest running he has ever seen. [Wink]

Let us know how you get on bud.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on July 16, 2018, 03:40 PM:

Any of these useful posts should be here:

Index of Technical Topics

-as a matter of fact, the ones that aren't should be too!

(If anybody finds some out in the wild, please tell Doug. We can't have found all 15 years of them on the first try.)

Mine has been running with the restored shutter wheel surface about three years now. I recently found out what happens when the cement fails. It can't fail everywhere at once, so the rubber tire falls off the wheel at that one spot but hangs by two neighboring ones that are still OK.

It was a little like getting a flat tire: the machine started to make some odd sounds and run roughly. I pulled over to the side, found a couple of places that were a little loose, applied new cement, then gave the machine a couple of days vacation to make sure it set up OK and it's doing fine.

When I first installed it, I used to check the bond every time I ran. After a while I slacked off to "never". I think I'll go back to "here and there".

Posted by Jim Schrader (Member # 9) on July 16, 2018, 09:50 PM:

Hi mike not to get off the subject where did you get your B&H repaired at and what did it cost you just an estimate will do thanks

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on July 17, 2018, 06:32 PM:

Jim, Richard Patchett at http://www.rcsclassic16mm.com did a good job servicing my B&H 16mm projector. The bill ended up being closer to $500 than to $400, not counting shipping both ways. It cost me $125 total for both ways (i.e., $60 something each time) to ship to and from my location to his, with insurance. In truth, it was costlier than my ideal, but I'll recover from that soon and will have a good-working machine.

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on August 04, 2018, 06:43 PM:

Finally ordered the ST1200 belt replacement kit from the ebay seller, and now I just ordered some E6000 adhesive from Amazon. Now what I really need to figure out is the best way to remove all the black goo. Already messed up by getting a bit of it on my carpet and then smearing it to make a big, black ugly smudge. [Frown]

Guess I will be getting an area rug, too, to hide that.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 04, 2018, 07:16 PM:

I'm with you there, Mike!

I revived a long idled ST-800 a couple of weeks ago and got a small smear of black belt goo on my wife's floral table cloth.

I thought I'd be clever and blend the smear into the pattern: make it look like a shadow or a stem!

-didn't fly more than a few days and the new table cloth is just lovely!

(Some people just don't appreciate art!)

I did a lot of Q-tips and denatured alcohol to de-belt goo my machine. (I removed the bulk of it with a small screwdriver first and smeared that on a paper towel.)

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on March 20, 2019, 05:26 AM:

Steve, months and months later (time is hard to find sometimes!) I am finally proceeding with your "method." Took a long time to remove all the black goo, but as of 4 a.m. today I have the new rubber "tire" fitted around the shutter wheel with zip ties holding it in place. Whew! That was hard. I managed it without removing ANY parts from the projector.

Next I will start lifting sections and applying the glue. I may or may not get back to this project today. LOL.

Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on March 20, 2019, 02:12 PM:

Slow, but steady, Mike!

-definitely not something you want to do twice.

I did some work, actually put the machine in another room for a couple of days, did some more.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on March 20, 2019, 03:41 PM:

Boy I hate that when that happens! That black goo. Can be a mess! I also use alcohol and the Cotton swabs! And I also use latex gloves! And make sure it does not get on your carpet. Because its hard to get up! And when the rubber coated shutter wears . Take it off the wheel. Once off than adjust the speed clutch so it can touch the shutter wheel! I use my special putty knife to get it off! With the motor running! Once done I use alcohol to clean the wheel! Get it nice and smooth!

Posted by David M. Ice (Member # 6777) on March 21, 2019, 01:02 PM:

I just had Milt rebuild my Elmo ST 1200HD and it's as good as new! All totalled it cost about $250 or so (including FedEx shipping to/from) and it has all new belts, etc. It's still a good idea to have extra belts on hand, but I can verify that Milt did an EXCELLENT job and my machine is purring like it was new out of the box.

Milton Goodwin
Audio Visual Repair Westcoast
752 W. Virginia Street
Rialso, CA 92376

av_repair71@yahoo.com

Posted by Mike Brantley (Member # 6275) on March 31, 2019, 08:14 PM:

OK, progress report. I'm still not out of the woods yet, but there has been progress.

A buddy gave me an ST-1200D that has almost inadubile sound output. Replacement amp (black Sanyo-made part) has been obtained via eBay, but I will need to wait for some help desoldering and soldering to swap that part in to test. I *suck* (badly) at solder work. But I bring this up because otherwise this 1200D runs smoothly and its operating noise is very quiet. Really, it purrs.

Now, back to the ST-1200HD I've been working on. Goo removed, new belts in place, and the new shutter wheel "tire" rubber has been glued into place. Good to go?

Well, almost. It projects a nice image, and the sound is nice and booming. However, the machine is very noisy to operate. It's noisier going forward than in reverse, but quite noisy in both directions. Not the sweet quiet from the other machine, that is for sure.

So, think I need to lubricate something, somewhere? What should be lubricated in these beasts, and what type of lubricant should be used? Or, could it be something else? I don't *think* it's my application of the shutter wheel rubber. But not sure. I more suspect it's all the other gizmos making noise. But, again, not sure.

P.S. I ordered a couple of 1600-foot reels from Steve Osborne, but I also still plan to track down a metal Elmo 1200-foot takeup reel.

EDIT: A follow-up clue.... I just switched the HD projector to 18fps and running noise is normal. Stopped it, switched back to 24fps, and now it is still very noisy running forward, but sounds quieter in reverse.

LAST EDIT FOR TONIGHT. PROMISE. OK, I figured out how to quieten the 1200HD in 24ps mode. I noticed the top rubber wheel that turns the mechanism at 24fps was not exactly aligned with the shutter wheel. It was a bit toward the front of the projector rather than straight over the shutter wheel. So I applied a bit of pressure and "adjusted" (probably bent, heh) the whole works back a bit. Now it's quiet. Whew!

[ March 31, 2019, 11:22 PM: Message edited by: Mike Brantley ]

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