8mm Forum: My Elmo !ens Adapter!

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Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on January 13, 2019, 11:50 AM:

I just made a adapter for my GS1200. And it works just fine! I can fit any small barrel lens. Right now I am using a Bolex lens like Hi Fi f1.3 and the Bolex Hi Fi F1.1 lenses. Do they look good! They have excellent edge to edge sharpness! Also they give a sharp and bright picture! I don't use my Elmo f1.1 no more! I can also use the sniender f1.1 in it! Which is better! I will be putting pictures up for you all to see!thanks to Joe Taffis for sending me a Elmo lens he did not want! An f1.3 zoom lens. All I had to do was replace the lens pin. I only had one left! I took the lens and empty it out. Took out all the inside. And I filed down the inside rear! To get the lens to fit and move just right!once I did that I gave it a good test. And to my surprise it worked out just fine! No more need to look for a Elmo f1.0 lens! This adapter is tops! Leon Norris.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 13, 2019, 01:58 PM:

That's great indeed.
I understand your excitement.
I've bought an adapter at van Eck for the schneider f1.1 into my Elmo GS1200 and it rocks.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 13, 2019, 02:09 PM:

I can attest to the quality of those Bolex "hifi" lenses. I currently am using a Bolex zoom on my Sankyo 2000, and a Bolex prime lens, that is better, on the Elmo FP8-C. It appears others here on the forum use these lenses, but for those that have never had one your really missing out. Still my favorite for projecting, especially the prime.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 14, 2019, 05:31 AM:

Are they better than the Schneider Kreuznach f1.1?

[ January 14, 2019, 10:33 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 14, 2019, 10:01 AM:

Looking forward to some pics Leon [Smile]

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on January 14, 2019, 01:40 PM:

Hello Janice, I think Leon's Elmo lens barrel conversion is similar to something Mark Norton and other enthusiasts have done for some time - have a look at the pictures in this 8mm Forums thread from 2007:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000494

Kevin

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on January 14, 2019, 03:05 PM:

Thanks Kevin. I'll check it out!

Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on January 14, 2019, 03:39 PM:

A Schneider 1.1 for the ST1200HD, that would be good.

Posted by Lee Mannering (Member # 728) on January 14, 2019, 03:58 PM:

Dad always used to say you'll never beat a prime lens in a projector. The schneider sleeve lens is excellent in every respect.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 14, 2019, 07:10 PM:

Your Dad was correct a good prime lens can never be beat! I've tried various zoom lenses from Schneider, Elmo, etc. Every time I go back to the Bolex 1.3 prime lens. I'm not saying Bolex made the best lenses in the world, but their prime lenses are very very good. To be honest it's the only prime lens I own, the rest are zoom lenses. The prime lens not only allows more light to transmit on screen, but it also allows the grain to shimmer, and the sharpness is unbelievable. I do have to project a smaller image, but that's OK because Super 8 seems to look best within it's limitations.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 14, 2019, 07:52 PM:

I totally agree that prime lenses are the best, on both cameras and projectors. I have a Kodak Ektar f1.0 22mm prime lens from an old Kodak M100 projector. I use it on all my Eumig's and the difference is amazing.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 15, 2019, 03:52 AM:

Ah I see, that's what Prime stands for.
Sorry I did not know the word for it.
I thought that Prime stood for most special serie lens.
A fixed lens without zoom.

That indeed is the best, as for photography as well for projection.
Maybe I need to go for a lens like that as well.

I have a projectionroom that will be finished end of February. It's for my work, where I can do the ISF-calibrations on the digital videoprojectors I sell, but there we will do all the Super8 projection as well, on a fixed screen in a shadowbox enviroment.
A Prime lens is suitable for a fixed setup.
Is there a way to calculate which Primelens I need, to fill this screen completely?
- My screen is 135cm high
- The projectorlens is about 4.5 meters from the screen, which can be less, but not more.

The screen is 16:9 but we have black lightabsorbing curtains on the left and right, so we can make it 4:3.

Oh man,... the ideas and knowledge I get from this forum is amazing.

Posted by Renzo Dal Bo (Member # 5688) on January 15, 2019, 02:00 PM:

I hope this helps. Suitable for S8 projection.

Screen width (4:3): 180 cm ---> 5,9 feet
Distance: 4,5 mt ---> 14,7 feet

According to the figure you need a 12,5mm focal length lens

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on January 15, 2019, 02:59 PM:

Like Matthieu, I didn't know that "prime Lens" means not zoom. That explains why the picture is equal or better than an Elmo 1.1 ou 1.0.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 15, 2019, 07:08 PM:

I found this definition for a prime lens at Wikipedia.

The term prime has come to mean the opposite of zoom—a fixed-focal-length, or unifocal lens.
While a prime lens of a given focal length is less versatile than a zoom lens, it is often of superior optical quality, wider maximum aperture, lighter weight, and smaller size. These advantages stem from having fewer moving parts, optical elements optimized for one particular focal length, and a less complicated lens formula that creates fewer optical aberration issues. Larger maximum aperture (smaller f-number) facilitates photography in lower light, and a shallower depth of field.

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 16, 2019, 02:54 AM:

I have a feeling that a prime lens is the basis for a zoom lens which will have more lens elements added as a type of variable converter. The added elements have more air to glass junctions that causes lack of contrast lowering the picture quality.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 16, 2019, 09:28 AM:

I think 13mm will possible work as well.
Stupid of me that I did not check this myself this way, but I placed my Elmo GS 1200 in that room.
Turned the zoomlens to it's widest angle at 12,5mm and the picture is 139 high.
This is good, because I can place my projector a bit closer instead of all the way with the 1200" reel almost in the curtains.

If I go for a 12mm Prime Lens or a 13mm Prime Lens, for what brand must I go?
Or is Bolex the only one who made them for 8MM projectors?
I have to make it fit for my Elmo or Beauer.
Better still, if it can fit in my Beauer, I have the adapter to make it fit my Elmo as well.

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 16, 2019, 09:52 AM:

Prime lenses were the norm on Standard 8mm cameras and projectors prior to the early 1960's. This is the main reason, along with the inherent superiority of double 8mm roll film going through an all metal gate, that 8mm Kodachrome film from this period looks so stunning. Super 8 of course has about a 40% larger frame, but the ubiquitous zoom lenses on super 8mm cameras and projectors, along with the nasty plastic super 8mm camera cartridge, compromises what can be achieved. DS8 film, run through a Bolex or Pathe DS8 camera fitted with prime lenses must be something to see.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 16, 2019, 11:01 AM:

Hmmm, so I need to search for a Standard 8mm projector or pathe projector than.
Those projectors can sometimes be bought very cheap.
I go searching for one.
Even a 10mm lens or less can be very handy for filling up my buildin electrical screen in my living room.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 16, 2019, 11:15 AM:

Not necessarily, I have an Elmo FP8-C Dual 8 projector from the 60's that is fitted with a Bolex "hifi" prime lens. Get yourself one of these projectors, and a Bolex prime lens from the first 18-5 series machines. The lens will fit without any modifications. The 18-5 Super has a larger diameter lens so these will not work. The FP8-C I own has the EJM halogen 150 watt bulb. Here's a link to my YouTube video of the Elmo I own. Please excuse all the rambling in the video ha.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eE8xo_nRyP0

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on January 16, 2019, 11:44 AM:

Hi Shane, it's a small world! I used to live in Montoursville working at Litton Electron Devices (now E3) on Westminster Drive in Faxon. Many happy memories of working there, among them it was where I first met my beautiful wife. They don't call that area 'Gods Country' for nothing. Glorious scenery, great trout fishing, and wonderful people. I still miss it.
We get to WMPT every few years, maybe next time we could get together for a cup of coffee and chat about film collecting.

Posted by Renzo Dal Bo (Member # 5688) on January 16, 2019, 11:50 AM:

The only prime lens I found of such a focal length is a very good lens: the "Eumig Suprogon 1:1 / 12,5mm".

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 16, 2019, 11:59 AM:

That's a perfect lens.
A nice list of projectors and lenses to search for.
Are there any 10mm or 9mm lenses around?
I did found a lot of lenses with fish eye in the title.
Not exactly what we are talking about.

Posted by Kevin Clark (Member # 211) on January 16, 2019, 02:50 PM:

My favourite lenses to use on Elmos are the F1.0 zoom and F1.2 25mm to 50mm zoom with their all metal barrels and real glass (not plastic) optics. Once stripped and cleaned the on screen results are sharp edge to edge with far better contrast than any other lens (prime or otherwise) I've tried, and trust me I have tried many, many types in my time although never one of the prime Kodak ones Paul uses which I would love to see in action.

Anyone who has attended the shows at the BFCC by Keith Wilton & John Clancy often mention the amazing quality of their 25 feet wide Super 8 images - the lens they use is an Elmo F1.2 25mm to 50mm zoom too.

The key thing to remember here is the Elmo zooms do deteriorate over the years and suffer greatly from internal dust and surface dirt / moisture / mild fungus. They are effectively open to the elements because of their moving parts whereas a similar age prime lens is totally sealed, hence the complete strip down and clean up of an Elmo zoom is needed before fair side by side comparisons can be made.

They are also a far better match for Xenon & HID use as the Elmo lenses produce a warmer image than Schneider's which accentuate blue. The Schneider F1.1 when used in my Elmo GS1200 Xenon & HID was, to my eyes, far too 'cold' image wise - the Schneider works great with a warmer toned halogen lamp projector though.

Kevin.

Posted by Mark Todd (Member # 96) on January 16, 2019, 03:38 PM:

I`ve noticed sometimes the xenovaron 1.1 can overcook some B+W images.

The 1.3 12mm one is very good though for B+W.

Best Mark.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 16, 2019, 07:23 PM:

When I was still shooting regular 8mm one of the best cameras I used was a Bolex K2. That camera was fitted with a Kern Vario-Switar 8-36mm f/1.9 zoom lens. Talk about great optics! Today I've been shooting Super 8 with an Elmo Super 110 which is a solid camera. One of the quietest I've ever used. On New Year's we filmed all our friends indoors with 4 vintage camera lights. Talk about bright holy cow. We used a Sankyo camera with a 1.2 lens, and some black & white Tri-X film. The results were stunning. I projected the film last weekend and everyone was very surprised how good it looked. They now understand why those movie lights were needed ha. I decided during the filming I would place the spotlights up high on a counter top above everyone. It actually worked out great, and kept the shadow effect to a minimum.

Paul good to hear from you! Yes the Williamsport area is a great place to work and live! I could do without Winter though ha! Let me know next time your in town. By the way I graduated from Montoursville in 1993.

[ January 17, 2019, 07:42 AM: Message edited by: Shane C. Collins ]

Posted by Brian Fretwell (Member # 4302) on January 17, 2019, 02:32 AM:

I have a 10mm Isco f/1.3 lens I bought (I think) from Lee's cameras when they were in High Holburn that fits Eumigs etc (32.5mm), so there are some around.

Posted by Matthieu van der Sluis (Member # 6040) on January 17, 2019, 03:33 PM:

Yes, how is the picture with that lens?
No fisheye effect?
10mm is very handy when I place my 8mm projector in front of the videoprojector cabinet to use the fixed screen in my ceiling.
The distance is to short to fill up that screen with my Beauer with Schneider f1.1 11-30mm lens.
A fixed 10mm lens will probably work, but maybe I even need a 9mm or 8mm still.

[ January 18, 2019, 07:08 AM: Message edited by: Matthieu van der Sluis ]

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on January 20, 2019, 11:45 AM:

I want you all to know that pictures will be posted by my favourite customer Joe taffis! So keep a look out! Leon Norris.

Posted by Joe Taffis (Member # 4) on January 20, 2019, 01:09 PM:

Leon asked me to post his photos...

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on January 20, 2019, 02:54 PM:

Looks good Leon! What Elmo lens did you use for this retro-fit?

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on January 21, 2019, 06:37 AM:

Shane, I used the Elmo F1.3 zoom lens. The Idea of using different small Barrow lens is great! I plan on doing another one soon!

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on January 21, 2019, 05:49 PM:

And a great choice of primer. I used that same Paillard Bolex 25mm for a while on my 16CL with an adapter, before finding a proper 25mm from Elmo.

Posted by Daniel Macarone (Member # 5102) on September 08, 2019, 01:24 PM:

What is the throw distance for those Bolex and Schneider and Eumig prime lenses? In other words, I'm curious how far away your projector has to be for picture to fill your screen.

Posted by Shane C. Collins (Member # 5641) on September 08, 2019, 04:36 PM:

You definitely need to place the projector back about 10' to get a good wide picture on the screen. I've replaced using a prime with my recent projector purchase. The rather rare Canon Cine projector T-1 dual 8mm model. That projector uses a 17-28mm F-1.0 zoom lens. talk about a bright image on screen! Also I don't use the widest zoom which gives better results.

Posted by Leon Norris (Member # 3151) on September 09, 2019, 10:14 AM:

Your right about that! The lest zoom the better the picture and brighter!

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