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Topic: Wanted: Any Stereo Trailer or Short
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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017
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posted March 10, 2017 04:31 AM
Thanks for the feedback, gentlemen.
I suspect you're both right, and I have no illusions about it. I have cleaned the rubber drive discs on the 938 and removed the slight wow symptoms I was experiencing when I first got the unit, but I'm sure it would be very challenging to do any kind of acceptable sync.
My Super 8 collection only consists of cutdowns and abridged features too, so I don't presently have any material to experiment with. If any of you have any suggestions of material to use, though, please let me know.
What I'd like to do is seek out some well-recorded commercial stereo prints but, as Andrew says, the quality is usually unsatisfactory.
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Martin Davey
Film Handler
Posts: 94
From: Southampton UK
Registered: Dec 2011
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posted March 10, 2017 06:18 AM
Continuing Andrews theme, you could feed in some stereo music from CD or a clip of soundtrack from a DVD to gain an idea of how well it records, and hopefully it will sound pretty good. The level may have to be brought done a bit when using modern sources possibly. I find the quality of sound on commercial prints very disappointing myself, and often the more modern the film with its complex mix,the more 'bassy' and 'muffled' it becomes, rather than the simpler, cleaner recordings of older films. The commercial stereo tracks don't work in 'prologic' mode either as the processor (dolby matrix) requires two good, balanced tracks, with high fidelity signals to help separate the mono rear from the front 3 channels. But it is important to note that this cine world and its charms are more about older films running on old technology, rather than trying to compete with Blu Ray etc,
My own rule of any super 8 commercial film is if you can hear what the actors say without straining then its a good track!
[ March 10, 2017, 08:22 AM: Message edited by: Martin Davey ]
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Martin Dew
Expert Film Handler
Posts: 204
From: Henley-on-Thames, UK
Registered: Jan 2017
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posted March 10, 2017 11:13 AM
Thanks, Martin and John. That's all excellent information.
Yes, you're quite right, of course. I have no intention of competing with Blu-ray. I have 11 channels of Parasound power amplifiers to do that for me. With Super 8 and 16mm film, I'm more interested in it as an anachronistic pursuit, creating the feel of 1970s and earlier cinema. I actually also love the full-bodied, mid-rangey mono sound of 16mm films, for example.
With that said, there was a spectacular demo at the BFCC in Ealing last year. They showed a clip from a Derann print of Supergirl. Having got back into this hobby again only recently, I had no idea Super 8 could sound that good. I asked Keith Wilton if he was live pulse-syncing to a DVD, but he told me he was actually just playing back re-recorded 2-channel stereo, straight off the main and balance stripes on a GS-1200. I thought it might be quite fun to get that kind of sound at home from film, but I think it might be a bit of an uphill struggle if not using one of the recommended PJs for the task, like the Elmo or Beaulieu.
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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler
Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003
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posted March 11, 2017 03:54 AM
You do not appear to be correct there Andrew as the SS1200 now drifs when trying to synch a film to video. This is because it's worn out. I killed that fabulous projector by doing so many re-recordings that eventually it was too knackered to do them any longer. Kevo changed the recording capacitors in my first GS1200 and I was then able to finally re-record features, trailers and cut-downs on that using Keith Wilton's orginal solution for synch pulse. The components of this can be purchased for a few pounds and assembled with a soldering iron.
A few years ago a fellow collector knowing of my affection for the film Phantasm obtained the Piccolo 2x400ft for me. Unlike the Derann prints this longer version hasn't turned bright pink. However, the sound being in German meant it needed re-recording but I didn't fancy doing it wild as I had done in the past so set about creating a synch pulse master via Serif Movieplus video editing. That made the end process very easy but probably took longer given that you have to transfer the film locked in at 25fps in the first place to match the stereo video, DVD or laser disc transfer to the Super 8 cut downs. When I did the same with the Marketing 2x400ft of Rollerball I did it wild using the Chinon. That was the job that finished that projector off really.
I don't post here often any longer Alan but occasionally a subject comes up which people know very little or nothing about and I feel it's necessary to set the story straight. After almost 20 years there's not often much I can add but reiterate what has been discussed time and time again.
Now Martin, that screening at the BFCC was the original review print of Supergirl. Whilst Keith and I don't care much for the film it is a very good Super 8 print and Keith's kept it for that reason. We've shown the flying sequence a few times now. The same with Poltergeist - we've shown that sequence before. Last time we screened it the section went missing and after a few years of it being 'lost' I was offered another original Kempski print so I snapped it up in order that we'd have it for future conventions. As soon as I did that the original missing sequence from Keith's print turned up having been joined onto the wrong film in the Wilton archives. We still have a 16mm Technicolor sequence from Zulu missing for probably the same reasons right now, damn it! Anyway, we've done a lot of high end Super 8 demonstrations at the BFCC and really have taken the gauge too its limits. When I had the HTI conversion done to one of my GS1200s (by Bill Parsons) in 2004 that was the finishing touch. The original lamp was brighter than the replacement that went in a few years ago but regardless of this there is no other light source to match HTI for the ultimate in Super 8 projection. We've been using my projector for all but one convention since the lamp conversion and at a five of them we also used my THX Ultra sound system. Who can remember the T-Rex sequence from Jurassic Park actually shaking the floor of the big Victoria Hall when we screened that using sync' pulse with digital sound from DVD? And the time I blew out a rear cone during the opening of Master & Commander? And the screen... 24ft from end to end. Not all Super 8 prints can take that magnification of course but it does give you the opportunity to see just how good, or not, a 'Scope Super 8 release really is.
I have a smaller 7ft screen in my home cinema and a 10ft in the living room where I run most of the Super 8 screenings. I find it easier to gauge how good a print is on the ten foot screen whereas everything tends to look better than it really is on the seven foot. HTI tends to make the print quality of everything look better but with a standard GS1200 it's obvious some are too dense (Agfa film stock used on the 1990s Derann prints for example is not as good as the earlier Kodak in this regard) or do not have such good definition. Star Wars is an example of a print being too grainy. The earlier Star Wars Kodak stock prints are superior to those struck on Agfa where the blue tint and increased density spoiled an already not particularly impressive release. I have prints from each and I checked this by running reels from both last night.
Now to get back on topic - Martin, perhaps what you should do is keep a look out for a trailer which you can have a go at re-recording. Probably the best result I ever got on a trailer was for Batman & Robin which was issued by Derann. The film may be a bit of a stinker but the trailer is great and the stereo sound is great too. Synch doesn't matter so much on a trailer and you can get away with a bit of speed variation here and there if you have to. As with all re-recordings though a lot depends on how good the sound stripes are and sometimes the results can be very disappointing so always check down the leader first. I have a couple of features where on one or more reels I just can't get anything worthwhile on them so it's sync' pulse every time.
The best sounding original Derann release I have is Disney's Beauty & The Beast. That went back to the chaps to be re-recorded by the original owner and the end result was just like a GS1200 re-recording at home. Sadly the owner then emulsion scratched the opening so he got rid of it. It had only just been released at the time so I snapped it up from Gary Watson and Barry Attwood at CEC Films (Cinema Entertainment Company).
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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.
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