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Author Topic: cinemascope lens for sale
Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted March 10, 2012 10:22 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I did use the 1.3 lens, Winbert. The scope lens sits in front of the 1.3 lens in my set-up. This works because I watched the trailer of Lawrence of Arabia four times already.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 12, 2012 05:01 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Akhsay, thanks for your reply.

Since I have measured my 1.3 lens is around 5 cm (= 2") from the front ring to the main lens, so did you say that that the length of this scope lens also around that? as shown on the pciture?

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Secondly, if you want to zoom in or zoom out the main lens, is the scope lens also turning? how then you handle this?

ps: btw, Perry has several scope films at very affordable price. Did you buy ?

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted March 12, 2012 09:08 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The length of the lens, you call it x, is around 1.7 inches.

Yes, the lens does turn as I focus the 1.3 lens already on my ST-1200. In fact, while watching the trailer of Lawrence of Arabia I had to hold the lens in place. Since the picture was great, all I have to do is keep it in place. One thought was to stuff cotton, or wrap wire around the lens and tie the other end of the wire to some secure place on the projector. Let's see.

This morning I did write to Ian for some scope features. Now am thinking I may not get what I asked for since I chose some obvious ones. I guess he won't reply if the features I asked for are sold, right?

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2012 07:16 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
1.7" inch, I think it is ver small lens, even the smallest lens I have ever seen. Good luck to get films from Ian

--------------------
Winbert

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 13, 2012 12:31 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
I would be very careful Akshay,as it is so easy to dislodge your
little lens and damage it,I would seriously consider either buying
or making a proper mount,remember accidents do happen and
it would be a shame to have it broken.

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted March 13, 2012 01:03 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert and Hugh, your observations are very astute. This is possibly the smallest cinemascope lens in the world made by Oscar winner Henri Chrétien himself. I got to know this last week when I had someone wanting to purchase the lens from me. I don't have the best sources to confirm this but it could be close to the truth.

I must care for this lens.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2012 07:14 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
There was someone trying to sell his own lens on Craigslist for $1900. He claims he has one of only 15 in the world ever made and also the only one in the USA. ???
That lens was designed for the Fuji P1 and P2 cameras and are rare.
Is it worth what he is asking? Probably not but with Ebay.. you never know.
Here is the post:
http://newyork.craigslist.org/mnh/pho/2888223187.html

I guess it was so rare he had to lower the price.
[Embarrassed]

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 13, 2012 08:38 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
My opinion, in creating widescreen image there is no point anymore to use a scopelens nowadays as the resolution of video is already very high (HD). Just use crop frame (up and bottom) you will alywas get the widescreen (as his picture sample)

Akhsay, one last question.

Have you ever try to project film with this scope lens at maximum zoom? please give a try for me.

Did you find the picture was vignetting?

ps: vignetting is the condition where the projection cannot make a perfect square but instead on every corner there are some black spot resulting the light projector hits the scope lens.

Here is the picture to show the vignetting:

 -

Let me know.

--------------------
Winbert

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted March 13, 2012 09:31 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan, I did see that ad last Thursday. Further research and I found that on the second of March the same lens sold for nearly $1000 on ebaY (France). I received an offer of $300 for it. Oh! The guy selling the lens on NY Craigslist offered me $25 for mine. He said mine is "destroyed looking."

Winbert, I will do what you requested soon. Am itching to watch my Lawrence of Arabia trailer for the five-hundredth time anyway!

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 04:19 AM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The guy on Craigslist "offered" his lens for my Kowa 8z as a trade if I 'threw' in some cash on top of it. He also sent about 6 emails saying he had "cash' if I could find the same lens as yours and he could pay up to $100 for it. Sounds like a hustler to me.
Good luck with the scope films. I really like Scope films. It is the movie experience at its best!
Also for filming if you use a scope lens is still has a certain look you can't get with a standard lens. Have you seen lens flare with a scope lens? It reminds me of a Spielberg effect. Its hard to recreate that with a standard lens. I'm sure that you could use filters but I haven't looked into it. Its just cool!

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Akshay Nanjangud
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 637
From: Dallas, TX
Registered: Nov 2011


 - posted March 14, 2012 12:03 PM      Profile for Akshay Nanjangud   Email Akshay Nanjangud   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
What is lens flare, Alan?

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 12:05 PM      Profile for Alan Rik   Email Alan Rik   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Lens flair is what happens to the light when it hits the camera lens. Here is an example:

http://vimeo.com/35883894

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Jon Addams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 638
From: New York, NY, USA
Registered: Apr 2007


 - posted March 14, 2012 12:05 PM      Profile for Jon Addams     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
"I really like Scope films. It is the movie experience at its best!"
Absolutely!!!

Nice find Akshay [Big Grin] [Big Grin] [Big Grin] , I hope you enjoy it for many years to come.

Jon

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 14, 2012 12:44 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Alan, that flare can absolutely be done with a filter.

Scope lens is no longer use in nowadays shooting/cinema because film can be easily cropped into 2:1 or to whatever the ratio that director wants.

Now get your digital HD camera and cropped the result with up and bottom bar, will you see the different? I don't think so.

I think it is more to sentimental (exotic) feelings when shooting or taking picture with a scope lens.

ps: Akhsay don't forget to test the lens with vignetting please.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Seb Farges
Junior
Posts: 6
From: France
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted March 24, 2012 07:57 PM      Profile for Seb Farges   Author's Homepage   Email Seb Farges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I'm an happy owner of the baby hypergonard found for few euros on Ebay last year, perfect on 50mm on my GH2. I also had another one found in a super 8 shop in Paris last month and sold it on Ebay (I'm the "one" in France [Wink] ). Believe me, it worth any penny. For the moment it's on a Canon FD 50mm lens, and I'm going to try it on 40mm voigtlander classic. I tried it on pancake Holga plastic lens and was able to focus very very closed. On the Canon minimum focus distance is around 1m50. I hope I will have the same result on the Voigtlander, I suppose it's a question of flange distance... Here is some movies with it :
http://vimeo.com/album/1834786

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Seb Farges

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 25, 2012 07:00 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
Coming in on this discussion on the little Hypergonar,I think that
the idea that there were only fifteen of these in the world is a bit
fanciful to say the least.Common sense dictates that the factory
making these things couldn't possibly set up their machines to
make a mere fifteen and be cost effective.Of such tales are legends born.There will be hundreds of these little lenses floating
about out there,because remember stills photographers were
buying these lenses.Some of them were even using the early
"fisheye"lens that were for use as door viewers! As for this idea
that any electronic medium is superior to 35mm slide film is
and I'll say it BALLS.The contrast on film is far superior to anything digital can come up with,I've seen far too many of these digital pictures,and they all have one thing in common
they're flatter in tonal range and contrast than a witches tit.
Anyone that thinks digital is superior to film should consider
a trip to "Specsavers".

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Seb Farges
Junior
Posts: 6
From: France
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted March 26, 2012 01:44 AM      Profile for Seb Farges   Author's Homepage   Email Seb Farges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
here is a comment from alan, an english anamorphic specialist, on my baby hypergonard :
"you have the smallest hypergonar lens ever made and one of the last designs of the great french man.
Professor Henri Chrétien signed over the rights to his fantastical optical invention Hypergonar to Twentieth Century-Fox in 1952,he was legally bound not to develop commercial scope lens or work with any other studios.
or sell the optics commercially.
this beauty was the only tiny amateur cinemascope lens he could legally make and could only be sold in france and her colonies :sad:
it was made for amateur standard 8mm film cameras.
his friends at the Société technique d'Optique et de Photographie (s.t.o.p).
at first said it was impossible to scale a cinemascope lens down to this size,and make a usable system.
Chrétien went too work and made this tiny gem a beauty.
a work of genius.
in the late 70s early 80s a supply of spare lens where found and and added too fuji single 8 plastic pocket size film cameras
many of these lens would have been thrown in the dustbin in the late 1980s with the standard 8 and single 8 cameras,with the rise rise of video : ( so are now quite rare.
i am glad the lens has gone home too france.
as it was made in paris : )

only the links from my tired mind..
the information was gathered before the internet : )
many years ago,when kodak was as big as apple is today : )
i was a home movie cine shooter mainly super 8 and 16mm.
your lens is a Mathematical Marvel with calculations worked out on an abacus.
he probably did the theoretical and drawing work in a dark room deep within his villa away from the harsh light of the Côte d'Azur.
i believe it was one of the last things he designed before his death.
do not drop it,it will crack and you will here not a thud but a Chrétien groan.
whatever the french is for another one bites the dust.
you may find an engraving on the lens saying not for commercial sale,something like that.
this was part of the hollywood deal that restricted his later work."

--------------------
Seb Farges

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 26, 2012 02:23 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Bonjour Seb,

I understand long time ago when the resolution was still low stretching picture with an anamorphic lens was the only way to keep the resolution high...but now with BluRay disc ..... Please explain briefly here, why videographers are still using anamorphic lens while in fact the picture resolution with today`s HD is already high enough.

Cannot we take in normal 4:3 and crop up and bottom like most domestic camera nowadays...

With all due respect, through your vimeo I don`t see any different your shooting with other people using cropping techniques.

--------------------
Winbert

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Seb Farges
Junior
Posts: 6
From: France
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted March 26, 2012 02:48 AM      Profile for Seb Farges   Author's Homepage   Email Seb Farges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Dear Wimbert,

shooting in anamorphic is not the same at all than crop techniques. 1st the rendering of the lens, special bokeh and anamorphic horizontal flares. The organic result transform our digital shot in cinema aesthetic. 2nd the focal is 2X the horizontal view, it means that the 50mm focal I'm loosing with the 2X GH2 micro 4/3 factor is coming back with the anamorphic lens. And 3rd cropping is cutting the frame. With the anamorphic I have all the frame available.

Seb

--------------------
Seb Farges

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted March 26, 2012 07:37 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Merci beaucoup Seb

Still it doesn't get me with today's high-end camera people are still using it other than ecsotism feeling when streetch and unstreetch the picture. I can still get the point in the case of people are shooting with super 8mm films because a millimeter on each frame does really matter to the quality of picture.

CMIIW, today's movies are no longer shot in anamorphic. The presentation is (it can be 16:9 or 2:1 or whatever) and it is done in the projector booth by cropping the picture. I don't think nowadays anamorphic lenses are still used in cinemas.

Ps: since the era of BluRay, film with anamorphic features is no longer available too.

My 2 cents,

--------------------
Winbert

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012


 - posted March 26, 2012 12:57 PM      Profile for Hugh Thompson Scott   Email Hugh Thompson Scott       Edit/Delete Post 
The reason people still use the Anamorphic lens is quite simple
Winbert IMPACT.When you can project your film or video the
full width of your living room that kind of makes people sit up.The amateur 'scope frame is wider than commercial 'scope
as you know being 2:66x1 as opposed to 2:33x1.
Cropping film or whatever else you're shooting on means less
information being recorded and thus leading to a slight degradation in image.Try pulling the zoom back on your lens
when projecting so that the picture overlaps the screen and
that is more or less the effect you get when cropping your image.A good example of this would be when Leone made his
"Dollar"trilogy in Techniscope,which only used half the height
of the frame,so when altered for std 'scope projection, the
image was not as sharp as a normal 'scope print.Of course as
we know, the reason Leone did this was because it gave him
greater depth of field in filming.As I have said before, the ideal
solution is to ditch the zoom lens and use a Prime lens,that is
a lens of fixed focus which has less elements involved that
"steal" the very light you wish nto put up on the screen and
give a much clearer picture.All The 16mm machines are all
sold with prime lenses because of better resolution.The set up
sold by Walton Films for their 'scope projection was the Isco
Kiptagon Iscomorphot and that used a 20mm prime lens.
Coming in on the belief that there are only fifteen of these
little lenses in existance,I come back to my previous comment
that to set up the machinery,not to mention the wages of the
men involved making them,would not be commercialy viable
because I remember these things selling for around the fifty
quid mark,which at the time would have bought you a 4x400
col/snd feature,and the Widescreen Centre,had loads of them for sale along with the Centascope et al.I'm pleased Seb has
one but somehow,the idea that just because the lens was the
first doesn't mean it could be put against some of the other top
of the range anamorphics.Remember that when the first 'scope
film "The Robe" was being made,some of the scenes had to be
very carefully done as the lens was not yet perfected.It is a
miracle little lens but the advances in lens manufacture and
the German Isco company,these lenses would well out perform
the original pro lens.

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Alexander Vandeputte
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 243
From: Belgium
Registered: Nov 2009


 - posted March 26, 2012 01:56 PM      Profile for Alexander Vandeputte     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, people are still shooting anamorpic widescreen! In fact the all new Alexa camera with a 1:1,19 sensor is specifically designed for anamorphic photography. Currently two features are shooting with this system. One is the new Bond movie and the other one (that I can't disclose here, sorry) is a big European production from wich I saw footage last week and I can tell you that real scope is something totally different then cropped widescreen. It is not about the 'flare thing' but about a fundamentally different image and this has to do with the fact that you use the full image of your prime lens.

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Olivier Ryard
Junior
Posts: 1
From: London United Kingdom
Registered: Apr 2012


 - posted April 26, 2012 09:54 AM      Profile for Olivier Ryard   Email Olivier Ryard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hello,

I'm looking for a small anamorphic lens such as the Berthiot Cinemascope 2x to shoot a short movie with a set up as discreet as possible.
That kind of lens would be perfect.
If anyone has one for sale, please contact me.

Thank you,

Olivier

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Seb Farges
Junior
Posts: 6
From: France
Registered: Mar 2012


 - posted April 26, 2012 10:03 AM      Profile for Seb Farges   Author's Homepage   Email Seb Farges   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Olivier I'm about to sell on of my two tiny scope lens. YOu can PM me at sebfarges@me.com

--------------------
Seb Farges

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