This is topic Lenses for Elmo ST180 in forum 8mm equipment for sale/trade at 8mm Forum.
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Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 04, 2010, 02:20 PM:
Hi!
I am wondering, what lenses can I use with my Elmo ST-180?
I am looking for a lens that produces a large picture with short throw distance, and an anamorphic lens.
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on January 04, 2010, 03:56 PM:
Christian,
The 'big picture' lens choice for Elmo in general is the F1.1 12.5-25mm unit (this is the upgrade lens from the standard 1.3 model.)
In addition to having a wider zoom, it is also optically better than the 1.3; that has at least been my experience from comparing 2 of each to each other.
Claus.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 04, 2010, 04:13 PM:
Claus is right.
This lens is normally supplied with GS 1200 projectors. Maybe someone here on the Forum can provide it for you. It's possible to find this lens for sale, but not at a very cheap price.
I suggest you to contact Kevin Faulkner. I'm sure he could have one for sale or, at least, telling you how to get one at a good price.
He will be also in a position to suggest you a good anamorphic lens. Or, even better, sell one he could have.
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 04, 2010, 04:16 PM:
Thanks, Gian, do you have his email address?
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 04, 2010, 04:20 PM:
super8 (at) mrelmo (dot) co (dot) uk
Another great Elmo collector and expert is Mr. Ugo Grassi.
Try to contact him at:
ugo.grassi (at) email (dot) it
Let us know ![[Wink]](wink.gif)
.
Ciao.
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 04, 2010, 04:47 PM:
I have mailed them both, will get back to you with results
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 04, 2010, 04:48 PM:
In bocca al lupo (good luck).
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 04, 2010, 05:10 PM:
This issue is also for me since I have a short distance throw between the screen and the projector resulting small projection.
Now, my lens is 1.3, if you guys are telling here to use 1.1 lens in order to get a bigger projection. What will be the increase (in percentage), eg. 10% bigger?
Secondly, what about with 1.0 lens, is it even bigger?
What that number means to you?
cheers,
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on January 04, 2010, 05:34 PM:
Winbert,
Two things at work here:
The focal length (12.5mm-on up) of a projection lens determines the size of image you can get with it from a set distance.
The F-stop (1.0-1.3) tells you the 'speed' of the lens, in terms of light 'efficiency'.
From the same projection distance, a lens with a maximum wide angle of 12.5mm will produce a bigger image than a lens with 15mm max. wide angle.
The F-stop (1.0 through 1.3) indicates the speed of the lens, as in: how bright the image will be on the screen.
Given the same amount of light, a 1.1 produces a brighter image than a 1.3.
The Elmo 1.1 lens has both advantages: it is faster, for more light on the screen, and it is wider than the standard lens, for a bigger picture.
How big a picture do you need, and how far back can you go?
If you tell me your screen width or the desired width of your image, I can tell you what the 1.1 lens needs in terms of floor space from the screen.
Claus.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 04, 2010, 05:41 PM:
1.0 is absolutely THE TOP. I do believe there's nothing comparable to this wonderful lens, referring to super 8.
Claus' post in more than exhaustive and very accurate. Well done, Claus.
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on January 04, 2010, 05:47 PM:
Gian, thanks, as long as you didn't mean "exhausting"... ![[Big Grin]](biggrin.gif)
The 1.0 lens is the king among the Elmo lenses, the fastest of them all, but not easy to come by, and, given what even the 1.1s can go for, definitely not cheap.
The only other competitor in all this is the Schneider 1.1.
Claus.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 04, 2010, 05:49 PM:
I did not, Claus !
You are definitely right: it's very hard to get this lens. And I agree about the Schneider/Xenovaron 1.1 (found one for 16 euro last summer eh eh eh). I use it/them (I've got more than one) on my Silmas.
One of the latest Elmo 1.0 I've seen for sale on Ebay was sold for more than 500 euro, last year ![[Eek!]](eek.gif)
.
But sometimes a little bit of luck can help. I won one on eBay Germany for 100 euro a couple of years ago .
Summertime is always the best moment for eBay acutions. Lots of people are on holiday = less contenders.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 04, 2010, 08:32 PM:
Thanks Claus and Gian... I got the idea.
So when you are talking the 1.1 (or even 1.0) is brighter, does it mean you can get this by increasing the bulb (which is definitively an inexpensive way) rather than buying $100 up for the lens?
OK may be you will discuss about the possibility harm to the transformer. But I can tell you that some one in my home country can make an external transformer for higher bulb wattage.
So what do you think on cost effective between buying faster lens vs increasing wattage?
Secondly any lens made with vocal length start from 10mm? My distance is around 9 feet but I wanted to get very large screen because this is what I always see in the theater (again if you are talking a dimmer picture because of bigger projection, I can deal with that).
regards,
Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on January 05, 2010, 01:02 AM:
Winbert,
Upgrading a lamp compared to changing out a lens (and I am no engineer):
A new lamp, with a new transformer, in a new lamp holder, with (most likely) extra cooling needed; you see where this is going...
I am not saying it can't be done, but I have a feeling it's going to be neither cheap nor simple. Even among the enterprising bunch on the boards here, I haven't heard of anyone doing it.
Also, you'd have to calculate how many more watts of lamp power you would need to get an appreciable increase in brightness on the screen.
At 9ft you are not going to get a "big" picture. There simply is no Super-8 projection lens that could cover that short distance and make it big enough for you; at least not one made for the Elmos that I have ever heard of. You'd need a really deep wide-angle lens to make a large picture from 9ft away.
I put up my ST1200 9ft out and measured with the 1.1 lens at the widest setting (12.5mm.) You get an image that is just under 4ft wide. That's it. You need more floor space ![[Smile]](smile.gif)
Claus.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 05, 2010, 01:46 AM:
quote:
I am not saying it can't be done, but I have a feeling it's going to be neither cheap nor simple. Even among the enterprising bunch on the boards here, I haven't heard of anyone doing it.
Thanks Claus, but I can see the difference being live in a developing country (where everything is limited) and in a developed country, like Canada or USA. Here, everything is calculated (ruled) with safety regulations as well as high cost living. Please don't get offended with me. I lived in Indonesia, I lived in Fiji (poorer than Indonesia) and now I am in Canada (one of richest country).
In Indonesia, the engineers work with anything seen in their working area. Are those stuffs save? not necessarily, sometimes is dangerous.
So regarding the upgraded lamp, I have seen some one in Indonesia putting 250watt into Sankyo 700 and nothing wrong happened (at least as far as I know). But I saw they had an external transformer and also using domestic fan to cool the projector. Not a nice seen, but since this was used for outdoor screening for hundreds people....well it's OK (they supposed to use 16mm, but sometimes for short films they used 8mm)
So upgrading the lamp is more inexpensive in Indonesia rather than buying a lens (which obviously cannot be hand-made).
However, I can see your explanation.
BTW (OOT) being from a developing country, when I lived in a less developing country, I got an experience when my eyes were shocked having seen a car was filled with Coconut Oil!!. Well in the Pacific there are plenty of Coconut and sometime they didn't get fuel supply.
cheers,
Posted by Dino Everette (Member # 1378) on January 05, 2010, 03:10 AM:
Winbert quick question...I thought you mentioned you had a short throw which was why you wanted the big picture - won't the short throw coupled with the extra light output of the f1.1 lens take care of any brightness issues?
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 05, 2010, 03:30 AM:
Dino...no, I don't have any short throw lens.
If you are referring to the other thread (which is also talking about the same issue), I was even asking if any short throw lens was marketed and would like to know the brand and the measure.
cheers,
Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on January 05, 2010, 07:42 AM:
Christian, Sorry i cant help you with either of those lenses. I would try the dealers here in the UK such as Derann, Perrys, Foster Films and Classic.
Those dealers quite often have those lenses.
The best Scope lens is the Kowa 8Z. This has a very large rear element and allows use with both 8mm and 16mm and when using very short throws. The Kowa 8Z was also sold as the Elmoscope 16.
Keep an eye on eBay as well as these lenses do turn up on there from time to time. FFR and Wittners in Germany both supply brackets to allow use of the Kowa on most 8mm machines.
Kev.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 05, 2010, 12:03 PM:
Hi Kevin.
Once again, it's always a pleasure to read your posts.
Hope it was not a problem to suggest Christian about you. I was quite sure you would have been in a position to help him.
Take care.
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 05, 2010, 12:31 PM:
Well, he provided names, so thanks
I found the scope lens in question at Classic Home Cinema, but it was £140, which I can't afford just yet.
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 05, 2010, 12:34 PM:
Time will get ! Sorry it did not help ![[Frown]](frown.gif)
. Take a look to my thread about Luigi Petrin's boxes.
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 05, 2010, 01:30 PM:
I have posted my email adress in the thread, Gian
Posted by Gian Luca Mario Loncrini (Member # 1417) on January 05, 2010, 01:33 PM:
Well done. Hopefully Luigi will mail you soon.
Ciao.
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on January 06, 2010, 05:05 AM:
Ugo has contacted me now, hopefully he can help me out with lenses :-)
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on January 06, 2010, 03:31 PM:
Claus may frown at this solution, but it might be an alternative to a major lens purchase. Years ago, I ran film showings at the Arlington , Va. central library...which has a long throw....and a not huge screen ..they actually had a booth at that time. We were fine with the 16mm machines they had in the booth, but when I needed to run shorts with my Elmo St1200HD, the picture was far too big,even withthe zoom all the way to the smallest setting. I have Kodak Pageant 16mm machines...and I have the little Kodak "bifocal converter". Put it in one way in the lens and it expands the picture...put it in flipped around and you get a much smaller picture. I found that when I took the converter out of it's little sleeve( it simples screws in or out) I could place it right inside the lens of the Elmo..a perfect fit. it brought the picture down to fit the screen. These converters sometimes show up on Ebay and are very handy, if not the greatest optics in the world. I'm pretty sure one would also fit in the lens of the 180.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 06, 2010, 03:48 PM:
quote:
Put it in one way in the lens and it expands the picture...
Gary, did you say it works like a magnifier?
It is new for me.
rgds,
Posted by Gary Crawford (Member # 67) on January 08, 2010, 10:16 AM:
it either magnifies or DEmagnifies , depending on which way it goes in front of the prime lens. It's called a bifocal converter. made by Kodak. Ebay sometimes has one for sale..or someone on the 16mm forum might have one to sell.
Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on January 08, 2010, 06:58 PM:
Gary...interesting!
What is the negative side of using this bifocal converter apart from dimmer light (which is normal and will happen to with short throw lens).
rgds,
Posted by Robert Oakley (Member # 141) on February 07, 2010, 05:07 AM:
I have an Elmo 1.1 lens I can sell to you if you still need one.
Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on February 07, 2010, 05:43 AM:
"Bifocal converter" is neither "rocket science" or anything special. Practically every camcorder manufacturer and photographic accessory manufacturer offers them, but calls them "wide angle" or "telephoto" converters.
They are simple two element Galilean telescopes; one way round they increase, the other they reduce, the focal length of the lens they are attached to, and are defined by their Factor, say 1.5X or 2X etc.
Martin
Posted by Christian Bjorgen (Member # 1780) on February 07, 2010, 07:31 AM:
Robert, I have sent you a mail
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