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Author Topic: Camera lightning
Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 04:47 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I am trying to find some sort of light source to use when filming indoors, but I can't find anything on eBay or Google.

Any tips?

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Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted January 07, 2010 05:51 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

video-/film-lights:
Of course you might even use some halogen work lights from a hardware/DIY store:
  • An example, others are also available with integrated tripod.
  • When you only want to lit a nearby face (=not a full room), even such portable devices might be sufficient.
  • Some more work lights (<- Beware: also contains some lights aren't suited!)
  • Some of these lights are also available with LED instead of halogen, e.g. this one
Hope this helps,
Jörg

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Mark Howard
Film Handler

Posts: 85
From: Manchester, U.K.
Registered: Jul 2007


 - posted January 07, 2010 09:09 AM      Profile for Mark Howard   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Howard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Christian,

You really can't go wrong with pro Redhead lamps and some ctb gels. You can often pick up battered ex-rental redheads off Ebay for not a lot of money. Hope this helps.
Mark

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 02:45 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Joerg, my German has gone abit rusty over the years, could you tell me if anyone of these would do:

http://cgi.ebay.de/Filmleuchte-ca-1000-Watt-von-Fa-Kaiser-alt-aber-top_W0QQitemZ180453228777QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Elektronik_Computer_Foto_Camcorder_Foto_Camcorderzubeh%C3%B6r_PM?h ash=item2a03d9c0e9

http://cgi.ebay.de/Filmleuchte-1000-Watt-ISING-Art-Nr-2550_W0QQitemZ190361923192QQcmdZViewItemQQptZErsatzlampen?hash=item2c52746e78

http://cgi.ebay.de/Filmleuchte-1000W-Unomat-LX300_W0QQitemZ280446787779QQcmdZViewItemQQptZDE_Elektronik_Computer_Foto_Camcorder_Foto_Camcorderzubeh%C3%B6r_PM?hash=item414bee60c3

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 07, 2010 03:41 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian, anything with 1000w (incandescent light) will do.

(ps: what about your first shooting on new year eve?

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 03:48 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Winbert, I'm sending it to Dwaynes for processing tomorrow, so hopefully I'll have it back before february. I'll notify you when I've got it back [Smile]

The three links I listed, do they all use standard bulbs that are easy to find/replace?

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Antonis Galanakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 191
From: Europe Greece Athens
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 03:51 PM      Profile for Antonis Galanakis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian
For your Canon it is better (I thing) to buy one light that you can put ON it and not hold it. Do not forget that placing correctly a light on the camera on the proper screw, you set off the day light filter that is in the camera.
I know, I know, bad English…. Sorry.
Antonis

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 07, 2010 04:03 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The three links I listed, do they all use standard bulbs that are easy to find/replace?
I am not sure about this, but it seems to me their normal bulb used for industrial works. So it's easy replacement.

However, these kind of bulb is not gone quickly. I believe it is like hundreds hours live span. Considering shooting 8mm film will also be exclusive for certain occasion (esp for indoor), I don't think you need replacement in near soon.

rgds,

--------------------
Winbert

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 05:01 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonis, there is no bracket on the 814 to fasten a lamp to, not that I can see anyway.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 07, 2010 06:43 PM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian,

In many cameras, there is a place to screw the lamp and by putting the lamp on that place it is automatically set the camera into indoor shooting setting (filter 85 off).

So it is not bracket and I think Antonis refers to this thing.

The screw does look similar to the place we put tri-pot for the camera.

cheers,

--------------------
Winbert

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 07, 2010 11:56 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
As far as I can see there is only one such hole on it, an thats for the tripod underneath... I'll check the manual if it says anything

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Bart Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 228
From: Hackney, London
Registered: Feb 2007


 - posted January 08, 2010 04:08 AM      Profile for Bart Smith   Author's Homepage   Email Bart Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I would be a bit wary of using halogen worklights as suggested by Joerg.

Although they may seem temptingly cheap they can be a bit of an unknown when it comes to colour temperature.

I recently telecined quite a bit of 64T for a project for a client of mine who had used similar lamps in a studio setting. He had set his camera 'correctly' (i.e. 85 filter disengaged), and the results came out somewhat yellow looking, and the colours generally looked really weird.

As it happened this sort of suited the fantasy feel of his studio shots, so he went with it.

As far as I could work out the light he used must have been outputting a much lower colour temperature than the nominal 3200K, and I have read elsewhere that Halogen lamps can range between 2800-3400K.

Presumably the lamps he used were near the 2800k mark. The difference was very noticeable to my eye, and would in most circumstances have been pretty unsatisfactory, particularly if you were intending to project the results from the original film. In the digital domain I'm sure the error can be to a greater or lesser extent corrected, I didn't do so for his project as he came to take a look and liked the effect.

--------------------
www.bluecinetech.co.uk

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted January 08, 2010 04:34 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi,

quote:
Joerg, my German has gone abit rusty over the years, could you tell me if anyone of these would do:...
yes, these are all "Filmleuchten" (film lights) from the Super8-heydays and would work fine for your purpose. The lights by Kaiser and Ising are reported to work fine. The seller of the Ising claims that the halogen lamp is relatively new.
The Unomat however is "nie verwendet" (never used). This could mean that it's "untested" = that you'll most likely have to by a new halogen lamp for the light.
However all three lamps do have a "caveat": I don't see any "tripod-adapter". (A "tripod-adapter" is needed if you want to put the camera and the light onto the same tripod: The adapter is a "stick"/"bar" with a hole in the middle. This is where the adapter is screwed onto a tripod. And at both ends the adapter has got a screw. One will be screwed into the camera, the other one into the light. You can see such an adapter in this photo (the black "bar" on the right). )

You'll also notice that the lamps do have different approaches: The Kaiser gives a more "horizontal" light (which I would prefer), while the Ising/Unomat gives a more "vertical" light.

quote:
For your Canon it is better (I thing) to buy one light that you can put ON it and not hold it. Do not forget that placing correctly a light on the camera on the proper screw, you set off the day light filter that is in the camera.
Such "on top of the camera"-lights have only been used for some cameras designed in the 60s and very early 70s. (With AFAIK only one exception: Nikon used it until the end.) And "of course" each manufacturer did have their own system (or sometimes even systems).

BTW: Has anyone ever tried one of these LED-lights?
http://cgi.ebay.de/Super-LED-Foto-und-Videoleuchte-f-bessere-Aufnahmen_W0QQitemZ370299870303QQcmdZViewItemQQptZErsatzlampen?hash=item5637979c5f

Jörg

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 08, 2010 04:49 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi, Jörg, and thanks for all your help.

I have made a bid on the Kaiser lamp now, and on a separate auction for an adapter.

Hopefully I'll get it cheap [Smile]

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

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Bart Smith
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 228
From: Hackney, London
Registered: Feb 2007


 - posted January 08, 2010 05:36 AM      Profile for Bart Smith   Author's Homepage   Email Bart Smith   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian,

It would be good to make sure that the safety mesh is still in place in that Kaiser lamp, the pictures don't show it open.

It probably is there, but just in case...

--------------------
www.bluecinetech.co.uk

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted January 08, 2010 06:50 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I personnaly use t his light kit on all my shoots. I recently shot a night time golf training video (yeah, not using film on these jobs, sorry) and it did wonders.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Antonis Galanakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 191
From: Europe Greece Athens
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 08, 2010 07:44 AM      Profile for Antonis Galanakis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
These photos might help

 -

 -

 -

By the way the lamp shoud be 3200K. So LED lights (6000 K) are not good for shooting.

Antonis

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Joerg Polzfusz
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 815
From: Berlin, Germany, Europe, Earth, Solar System
Registered: Apr 2006


 - posted January 08, 2010 08:22 AM      Profile for Joerg Polzfusz   Author's Homepage   Email Joerg Polzfusz   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
These photos might help
Yes, similar lights could be attached to e.g. an Elmo Super 103 (at least up the Elmo Super 100 R). However the attachment was completely different.

quote:
By the way the lamp shoud be 3200K. So LED lights (6000 K) are not good for shooting.
Actually this depends on your film: When having a tungsten-balanced film, a light (e.g. halogen) with 3200K is best. However approx. 5300K - 5500K are best when using a daylight-balanced film. (And the 6000K are "close enough" to this value.)

However I'm more worried about the amount of light provided by the LEDs. E.g. the "Super-LED-Foto-und-Videoleuchte" from my "ever tried one of these LED-lights?" claims to have 11cd per LED. With 7 LEDs this should add up to 77cd. A normal light bulb with 60W has got 58cd, a 100W-bulb has got 110cd according to the wikipedia. Would this really help when filming indoors with e.g. the Wittnerchrome 100D?

Jörg

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Mark Howard
Film Handler

Posts: 85
From: Manchester, U.K.
Registered: Jul 2007


 - posted January 08, 2010 09:12 AM      Profile for Mark Howard   Author's Homepage   Email Mark Howard   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jean-Marc, they're redheads and I personally couldn't work without them.

There's also the PagLight, which I'd completely forgotten about. They beat any other on-camera light by a million miles. Bit expensive though. I think a basic 'prosumer' version starts at around £175.

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 08, 2010 09:30 AM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Antonis, that is the Electronic version. I have the manual Autozoom 814 [Smile]

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Antonis Galanakis
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 191
From: Europe Greece Athens
Registered: Jan 2009


 - posted January 08, 2010 01:32 PM      Profile for Antonis Galanakis   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Christian
This is the Electronic version. If you have the right one it will be great if you can email it to me.
Thank you
Antonis

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Christian Bjorgen
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 996
From: Kvinnherad, Norway
Registered: Oct 2009


 - posted January 08, 2010 03:03 PM      Profile for Christian Bjorgen   Author's Homepage     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I have mailed you the correct one.

--------------------
Well who’s on first? Yeah. Go ahead and tell me. Who. The guy on first. Who. The guy playin’ first base. Who. The guy on first. Who is on first! What are you askin’ me for? I’m askin’ you!

 |  IP: Logged

Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004


 - posted January 10, 2010 12:50 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Mark: interesting, we call them "tangerine" here. When it comes to hair colour, we call "blondes" quartz lights betweem 1 and 2K.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006


 - posted January 10, 2010 01:29 PM      Profile for Claus Harding   Email Claus Harding   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Re: LEDs. They look great, especially with a soft-box on them, they run cool and last a long time. They are still at least $200 for a 'pro' head without accessories.

One lighting recommendation: indirect or diffused light always is better than on-camera direct light.
A bigger, more general lamp bounced against the ceiling or with a soft diffuser will give you softer shadows, a better overall look, and, importantly, won't make your subjects feel uncomfortable, so they feel better about being on-camera.

Tungsten lamps are standard, but daylight-temp. lamps are fine too if you use daylight film indoors. This applies if you stick to real photo- or video lights.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003


 - posted January 11, 2010 12:03 AM      Profile for Winbert Hutahaean     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Hi guys,

Knowing LED lights will give white color (am I correct?) versus Tungsten (incandescent) light which warm color, what should we do with the color balanced filter 85 (disbaled or enabled?)when shooting with this LED light?

thanks

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Winbert

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