8mm Forum: Help Getting Started

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Topic: Help Getting Started

Robert C. Kline
Junior
Posts: 2
From: Austin, TX
Registered: Dec 2005

posted December 24, 2005 01:28 PM

Thanks to Dan Lail for referring me to your forum. I have been interested in showing films on B&H manual thread 16mm sound projectors since I ran an old B&H 185 for my elementary school classes in the early 1950's. I would like to buy a B&H Filmosound on ebay and would appreciate advice on what to buy. It's difficult to know what you're paying for and some sellers aren't even sure their projector works. Are there any models to avoid? If necessary, can the projectors be repaired? Does anyone work on them, or are you on your own? Are parts available, especially projection lamps? Since almost all have the old tube-type amps, can they be repaired? Are parts, particularly tubes and capacitors available for them?

Sorry for the 3rd degree as a new member, but I have a lot of enthusiasm but little knowledge and no experience with such equipment - a dangerous combination. I am an engineer and very handy fixing things.

Thanks for any advice out there.
Bob Kline

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Bob Kline
Austin, TX
512.658.1453

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Brad Miller
Administrator

Posts: 525
From: Dallas, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 24, 2005 05:17 PM

I'm not up to date on the B&H line of 16mm projectors (I've used many, but couldn't tell you what the models were). For everything I've ever used in 16mm, the Elmo and Eikis are by far the best. I'm sure the guys here can chime in with more info.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted December 26, 2005 03:55 AM

Hi Bob, welcome to the forum.
Brad is right, Eikis and Elmos are a safe bet (Eiki parts can still be traced). But if you want to stick to B&H, try to purchase one of the more recent models. There should be no problem finding lamps for these. If you feel comfortable fixing things, buy several machines and you'll have a stock of spare parts. [Wink]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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David Park
Master Film Handler

Posts: 346
From: UK
Registered: Nov 2003

posted December 26, 2005 06:12 AM

I have B&H projectors, now they do have a grave design fault and it it the main worm gear. It is made of 2 materials a metal bush with a sleeved nylon gear, this nylon part cracks and then brakes up. This is why they go on Ebay for a lot less money than Eiki/Elf machines. THe replacement is expensive to fit and unecconomic well over £100 here in UK, it is not a DIY job. The replacements are all plastic and the 2 m'c s I have with replacements fitted are black plastic, so easy recognised from the orginal white ones.
The latest made ones I have are models 2592 and were the last of B&H maunfacture. These are running fine with the orginal worms.
Over the past year I've aquired about 10 or 12 B&H m/cs of various models either given or bought cheap, 2 have broken worms and 1 as started to crack. The cracked one at the moment is running OK. But the ones with the new worms, people say these could run for ever!

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Regards,
David

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted December 26, 2005 02:47 PM

I'm beginning to wonder whether B&H stands for Broke & Horrible [Roll Eyes]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 26, 2005 03:58 PM

Hi, Robert and welcome to the forum. I've been using Bell & Howell 1500 series hundreds of hours for five years. If you obtain a service manual and keep them cleaned and maintained they're work horses. I have three B&H 1500s I rotate and a couple for parts. The drive belts can still be found for around $10.00. I buy the bulbs onebay in multi-packs for around $5.00 each.

The Eikis are super too! I have an Eiki and would use it but I don't have a one inch lens for a large picture. I bought the projector for $38.00(includes shipping), but the one inch lens is rare and cost a few hundred dollars.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2005 10:02 AM

Robert,

I understand and share your passion for the early B&H 185. The first projector I used in grade school was the 179.

There are a couple of drawbacks to these "early" machines. They have tube amps that most likely will need to be rebuilt. The tubes most likely will be fine, but the capacitors will have dried out. If you're into antique radios, then this isn't a problem.

Unlike the later B&H machines (500 series up), the 100-200-300 series were all gear driven with metal gears. They don't have the "worm gear syndrome" that the later machines suffer, but they are noisy and use a special 1000W or 750W lamp. There are still thousands of these around, but you'll have to search for them without getting ripped off.

While the 185, 285, and 385 are almost identical, look for a 385 or 399 which was the last of the series and dates to the early 1960s. If you look really long and hard, you might find one of the 5399 machines which were made with the Chicago tooling in Japan and have a solid state amp and solar cell pick up.

Of course you could move on like the rest of us and pick up a SSL or SNT Eiki which would date to the mid to late 1980s (you'll even find some of these with the B&H name plate since Eiki bought the old B&H line and marketing rights for a few years). They have a solid state amp and use the more modern 24 volt halogen lamp. Of course the 1000W B&H 185 will help you heat you house during the winter.

Be careful, this hobby can become addictive and you might require professional help.

John

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted December 27, 2005 06:27 PM

Robert,

It's true regarding the original nylon worm gears in the 1500 model series B&H projectors.

Another friend informed me that, K&M sells replacement worm gears that surpass the original design. They do not crack, and they run smooth and quiet.

It's only a matter of the know how in repairing and replacing these units when they become damaged.

The 1574 manual thread which I have, has a three pronged claw, and it delievers a rock steady picture.

Welcome to the world of film collecting.

Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 28, 2005 09:31 AM

quote:
It's only a matter of the know how in repairing and replacing these units when they become damaged.

This is really an advanced repair requiring a complete tear down to get at the part and then re-timing the projector for claw/shutter/sprockets on reassembly. At today's prices you'd pay a repair man several hundred dollars in labor plus the part.

It's certainly cheaper to keep replacing the projector when the item breaks and keep the old ones for spare parts you might need (amp, switches, arms, etc).

John

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 28, 2005 02:06 PM

Bob

I probably have this wrong but are you the Bob of Thornhill on ebay?

Welcome!

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Tony

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Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted December 29, 2005 02:07 AM

John,
Indeed you are correct. I should not have sounded so 'experienced.'
The precesion that is required to keep it all in sync is demanded by expert technicians.

Tony,
The names are similar, but Thornhill is: Robert M. Cline.

Michael

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Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

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