8mm Forum: 16mm televison prints and DVD

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Topic: 16mm televison prints and DVD

Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 23, 2006 12:38 PM

Does anybody think that with the DVD of shows being released that will kill the shows being sold on say ebay on 16mm? you can buy 2-3 seasons of a show on DVD for the price of one show on 16mm.
I have seen some shows go for 500.00 or more but some of these shows are not out in dvd yet which makes them an easy prey for bidders out there.

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Scott G. Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 229
From: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted February 23, 2006 02:18 PM

I'm quite interested in old Twilight Zone episodes and have followed some auctions for super 8mm and even 16mm prints. Even though the series is out on DVD, these episodes still sell for hundreds of dollars. This is certainly a speciality niche. I wonder if Mary Tyler Moore or MASH will hold up as well?

SGB

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"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 24, 2006 09:17 AM

My personal opinion is that those rare 16mm DB (delayed broadcast) prints (non syndication) that have all the original commercials in them from the original broadcast date will continue to be popular.

This moves the titles from "wants" to the true collectors after the original broadcast version. As late as the 1970s (before the satellites took over) the networks were sending out up to 17 prints of each show to stations that were not on the AT&T lines or required a different air time (because they were joint ABC/CBS stations). Tape was still 2inch quad and too expensive, but once the distribution moved over to satellite, local stations would tape from the feed and broadcast later.

John

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 24, 2006 11:58 PM

I don't think that the DVDs will kill of 16mm prints at all.
It's really like comparing apples and oranges -- people who collect films want film - regardless of whether or not it's available on DVD. Look at Star Trek prints for instance -- Star Trek has been available on DVD for ages (and before that VHS and Laser Disc), and yet you often see faded red prints of episodes selling for $100-$150... I remember paying $25 each for fading Star Treks in the late 80s/early 90s... LPP Star Treks are now pretty much impossible to find and can go for as much as $500 when they do turn up.

I collect both, and there are some TV series that I have in both formats. But I vastly prefer the films. DVD picture quality is great, and in some cases can be sharper than a film print -- but it still doesn't look right to me.

But John is quite correct that original network prints are very desireable...

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Jim Latendorf
Junior
Posts: 13
From: Sacramento, CA.
Registered: Dec 2005

posted May 09, 2006 05:12 PM

Another thing about TV episodes on DVD against real network prints. Content. It's the commercials included in the network print that are way cool. I have one true network print. An Ozzie and Harret show. This episode was brought to you by Coca-Cola. Starts with a Coca-Cola commercial with Dave and Ricky, then in the middle of the show Anita Bryant "sings for Coca-Cola". Then at the end, Ozzie, in his kitchen, walks to his fridge and gets a coke out telling everyone how great it is to have a Coke after a show and asking "wouldn't you like to have one, too?" All title cards and credits have the Coca-Cola logo. Next week's episode will be brought to by Kodak with a Kodak commercial, ending with an public affairs plug by the Ad Council followed by ... "This has been a ABC television network film presentation". Fun to watch shows this way with no splices/inserts. DVD versions just woun't have this added footage.

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 28, 2006 08:19 AM

True the DVD's do not add that stuff if so maybe an extra bonus but not as it aired, I was watching an episode of Lost In Space and noticed that they cut out 6 seconds in a part I remember complete when I taped it on TV years ago when they used 16mm so I got out the tape I recorded it on and sure enough they cut that part out, now how can they call these shows the complete 1, 2, 3 seasons when they are doing this? How come they don’t air them as they were shown? [Mad]

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 29, 2006 09:51 AM

quote:
How come they don’t air them as they were shown?

There are lots of reasons, but one thing to remember is that the networks ran 35mm prints and then delayed broadcast prints were 16mm (for stations that either weren't connected to the AT&T feed or ran the show at a different time) and the negatives and prints were re-used and recut with different commercials for re-runs.

Then when the shows went into syndication, the negatives were again recut removing all the original commercials and changins the billboards and end credits. Back then most end credits had a small picture of the the product of that week's sponsor (pack of Kool Cigarettes, etc).

So many of these items are no longer in the studio vaults and only exist on those few 16mm prints that "got away" during the original broadcast days.

As late as the early 1970s, NBC was still sending out 16 or 17 16mm prints of each show each week to stations that either were running at different times or were not on the net feed. At the time the alternative quad videotape was much more expensive than a film print and stations actually wanted film since tapes cost more to run as well (engineer time and head wear which was counted in the 100s of hours before replacement).

John

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 29, 2006 10:50 AM

So, to answer Jim's question: are those 6 seconds missing from the DVD release because of sloppy negative cutting?

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 29, 2006 11:43 AM

quote:
So, to answer Jim's question: are those 6 seconds missing from the DVD release because of sloppy negative cutting?

Very likely, also there is little chance that anyone looking at the episode today in telecine would know that something was missing from that source material. Even if they did notice, the cost and effort to try and find other source material and get the collection thru was probably considered too costly. At what level of management this happened is anyone's guess.

John

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David Brooks
Junior
Posts: 16
From: League City, TX, USA
Registered: Jun 2006

posted June 13, 2006 10:13 PM

I guess it all depends upon what an individual wants. I have bought a lot of 16mm TV shows (Steven has a smile from all of the MASH episodes I bought from him.)

I have the MASH DVDs to, but I like to look at some of the episodes I love on 16mm film. Can not stand commercials so I don't but films with them still in it. Different strokes for different folks!

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Dave Brooks

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