8mm Forum: What To Do With Negs?

This is topic What To Do With Negs? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on March 25, 2006, 11:43 PM:

I have aquired a couple of 16mm negatives. I guess it would cost a lot of bucks to print them up. They're educationals. Sure wish they were GWTW or SOTS. [Frown]

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on March 26, 2006, 03:07 AM:

There's someone selling a lot of 16mm trailer negatives on eBay at the moment. I did wonder what it might cost to get one or two printed. Does anyone know if they are likely to have the optical track on them?

Posted by Jan Bister (Member # 332) on March 26, 2006, 09:43 AM:

If you use a contact printer then I don't see why not.

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on March 26, 2006, 05:50 PM:

quote:
There's someone selling a lot of 16mm trailer negatives on eBay at the moment. I did wonder what it might cost to get one or two printed. Does anyone know if they are likely to have the optical track on them?

Normally in making release prints you have two rolls of film. One is the picture (action) negative and the other is the sound (track) negative. The two are contact printed normally on a Bell & Howell printer to a single piece of color positive or black and white positive film.

Commercial laboratories (like Fotokem, Duart, etc) will change for a first trial print at a very high price (often over $1.00 per foot for color) and then a lower rate for release prints (for non contract customers this might be in the range of 30 cents a foot).

Now days, color and black and white are priced the same and it's hard to find a lab to print black and white on real black and white print stock (7302).

The other problem in the US at least, is that any commerical lab will require you to sign a binding agreement that you own the copyright or are the legal copyright holder/licensee to make the print. This makes "walk in" customers a thing of the past.

There may still be some "basement" labs around (like the heydays of 16mm PD collection) but at least in LA with the current sewage restrictions, it's impossible to start up a laboratory now days.

So if you buy a negative, figure on printing it yourself and look for a nice Bell & Howell "J" for black and white or "C" for color. And then you'll need a processing machine, plumbing, mixing tanks, and the fun just keeps on coming.

John

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on April 01, 2006, 11:12 PM:

Thanks John. That was interesting information as always. Very expensive endeavor. These are educationals. One has the finished print along with the neg. John, do you know anything about the legalities of leasing out stock footage from educational films?

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on April 02, 2006, 12:52 PM:

quote:
do you know anything about the legalities of leasing out stock footage from educational films?

That's a difficult question. If the film is so old that it's clear that no copyright (hence pd) is enforce (say some 30's materials) that it would be ok.

The problem is that anyone who buys stock footage from you is going to require a contract that says you have the right to sell and license that footage to them for their purposes so if someone comes along and says, for example, they own all the rights to the Jam Handy Films then you'd be on the hook. Even defending yourself in one of these things if you're right is expensive. That's one reason why we have so many different kinds of insurance when we make movies.

There is also the possibility that the company that made the movie bought some stock footage from someone else and it's still protected.

It's just messy and that's why people often pay license fees for film that clearly in the pd just to satisfy their insurance company requirements.

John

Posted by Eberhard Nuffer (Member # 410) on April 02, 2006, 04:39 PM:

Adrian,

all negatives for 16mm trailers I can see on eBay USA at the moment consist of a picture negative and a separate optical sound negative roll.
It would be nice if someone bought these negatives and offered prints to forum members [Big Grin]

Eberhard

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on April 02, 2006, 07:55 PM:

Eberhard, I don't think we're in Kansas anymore. Look there are new prints hanging from the trees. The smell of printing chemicals is so strong.. I think I'm getting sleepy...... [Big Grin]

Posted by John A. Pommon (Member # 292) on May 01, 2006, 11:34 PM:

Older [H8] etc. Sony camcorders have a "Negative" menu position.
If you selected negative on the menu, with the camera aimed at a negative projected image the camcorder video output is positive.

Posted by David Brooks (Member # 621) on June 13, 2006, 10:37 PM:

For what it is worth, Kodak no longer sells 7302. I tried about 3-4 months ago and after an hour on the phone with Kodak, the answers was it is not avaialbe anylonger even thought it may be on there website. Thus, B&W prints will be on color print stock.

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on June 14, 2006, 06:21 AM:

Here are Andec's prices:

Colour:
http://www.andecfilm.de/assets/pdf/pr_31.pdf

WORK PRINT (one-light) -contact-
without grading 1,00 EUR per meter
includes density grading 1,40 EUR per meter

RELEASE PRINTS -contact-
First print 2,10 EUR per meter
Correction print 1,50 EUR per meter
Release prints ( > 5 prints) -,85 EUR per meter
Single print / repeat order 1,10 EUR per meter

B&W:
http://www.andecfilm.de/assets/pdf/pr_4.pdf

WORK PRINT (one-light) -contact-
without grading 1,20 EUR per meter
includes grading 1,75 EUR per meter

RELEASE PRINTS -contact-
First print 2,50 EUR per meter
Correction print 1,75 EUR per meter
Release prints ( > 5 prints ) 1,25 EUR per meter
Single print / repeat order 1,50 EUR per meter

All Prices are without VAT. There might be some additional costs, too (shipping, working with negatives with less than 60m, ... )

Andec can also do 35mm- and Super8-prints from the 16mm-negatives.

Jörg

Posted by Winbert Hutahaean (Member # 58) on June 14, 2006, 11:26 PM:

Hi all,

A very silly question for my first posting at 16mm forum....:

1. Are those negatives exactly look like our normal negative photos? (i.e. ghostly picture)

2. If we take shoot with Kodak negative film (surveillance) or Pro 8mm does it mean Andec can develop and print it?

3. Why Pro 8mm does offer telecine to video but not to develop and print it? What is the consequence to have print from negative then?

thanks for your help,

Posted by Joerg Polzfusz (Member # 602) on June 15, 2006, 03:17 AM:

Hi,

yes, Super8-/16mm-negatives look like 35mm-still-photography-negatives. But you'll notice that e.g. the Kodak Vision colour-negative stock will look more orange. (One of the effects that had to be "removed" by using some filters when doing the positive print).
And yes, Andec can make a positive Super8-print from a Super8-negative-film, too - just take a look at their webpage. Andec is AFAIK the only company worldwide to offer this service just because there never was a machine to do this. Hence Andec had to convert a 16mm-machine to Super8.
When it comes to handling 16mm- or 35mm-negative film, Andec isn't the only company.

Jörg

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