8mm Forum: Eastman Stocks

8mm Forum

my profile | my password | search | faq | register | forum home

next oldest topic

next newest topic

»	8mm Forum » 16mm Forum » Eastman Stocks (Page 1)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Eastman Stocks

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2007 05:53 PM

Edit/Delete Post

I always thought that Eastman stock became labled as Kodak when they went over to LPP in 1982.

Today I got a 16mm feature from Derann which is edge signed as Eastman x+x Saftey Film. The colours are really nice. I checked the date code from the x+x and it turns out to be a stock produced in 1991.
When did they drop the Eastman edge signing and is it possible that some of the later 8mm prints on Eastman are in fact the later LPP stock just like this 16mm print.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 28, 2007 06:56 PM

Email Steven Sigel

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Kevin - All the LPP stock I've ever seen was "Eastman".. The stock that was marked Kodak was "SP" stock...

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 29, 2007 04:12 AM

Edit/Delete Post

I thought it was the other way round?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted November 29, 2007 08:07 AM

Email Steven Sigel

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Nope...

It's "Kodak SP" and "Eastman LPP"....

I've never seen a print that was marked the other way...

| IP: Logged

David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted December 19, 2007 07:42 AM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Today on 35mm release prints it is just KOD*AK or Fujicolor. There are a whole series of numbers too, but Kodak does have the year in plain numerals i.e. not code.

It has been years since I actually saw LPP on the edge of the film. Ever since the SDDS tracks covered the film edges the writing has gone to a feint purple script.

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 22, 2008 05:55 PM

Edit/Delete Post

I know it's a while since this thread but I watched a print of "The Italian Job" this weekend and its going well magenta with not a black in sight. Its clearly marked as Eastman Safety Film but the rest of the markings are not too clear.
Any thoughts on this.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted June 25, 2008 05:28 PM

Email Bill Brandenstein

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Bad lab work?

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 25, 2008 05:53 PM

Edit/Delete Post

Yes I wondered if this was the case [Frown]

[Frown]

Thanks Bill, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 26, 2008 02:58 PM

Email John Whittle

Edit/Delete Post

Kev,

I'm guessing this was the first "Italian Job". It was released in the US by Paramount and the prints were made by Movielab Hollywood. I have a scope print but haven't looked at it in some time and it dates back to the 70s.

I wonder if your print was US or made from a dupe negative sent overseas. I recall at the time there was a lot of Fuji stock around as well as Eastman, not much Agfa here at least.

But there are so many things that can go into fading, it would be interesting to know what the date code of the print is and whether it was from the initial print order back when the feature was released or a later order for 16mm rental companies. If it is later, then it could have been done almost anywhere and trying to determine as lab QC would be impossible.

Movielab really got the Hollywood lab in order after they bought out Perfect Pathe. That lab had a terrible reputation for quality and they did a lot of the Screen Gems 16mm color tv work in the 60s up until Movielab bought the lab. Then all the Columbia work moved to Metrocolor.

Paramount split mostly TV to Movielab and features to Technicolor, but Italian Job was an exception since it was a negative pick up for Paramount.

John

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 27, 2008 04:41 AM

Edit/Delete Post

John, I'll have a good look at the print tonight and see what I can make out from the edge markings and leaders. I cant remember right now if it has it's original leaders. I do know it's edge signed Eastman Safety Film but some of the other symbols are obscured by the sprocket holes etc. I'll pull a load out and see what I can find and report back. Some of it is much better than others it's certainly not consistent through the whole feature.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 27, 2008 03:06 PM

Email John Whittle

Edit/Delete Post

Kev

While you're checking, see if the variations occur at splices. Also check and see if the pieces are all the same stock and same date code. You might have a print that was assembled from various parts either by the lab or the library. I know that Movielab would hold overprints and wait for reorders and then inspect and reprint what was necessary.

If your print doesn't have the Paramount logos, maybe it was a print made for the UK distributor (I don't know if Paramount had worldwide on this title).

John

| IP: Logged

Clive Carmock
Film Handler

Posts: 69
From: London, UK
Registered: Feb 2005

posted July 15, 2008 05:27 PM

Email Clive Carmock

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I've got an ex US TV 16mm print of the original Italien Job - mostly teh colour is superb, however there are soem dark scenes where blacks are a slight magenta and then the next scene is perfect again.

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 17, 2008 03:32 PM

Edit/Delete Post

John,

Back to the film markings. First there are no Paramount logos but then someone could have removed them. The film doesn't have the original leaders unfortunately.

Reel 1 is quite warm to magenta but reel 2 although warm does have all the others colours and looks much better. Towards the end of reel 1 it changes to the same stock as reel 2 so looks much better. About the last 400ft or so.

Here is the info on the edge of the 2 reels:

Be interested to hear what you say. From my Ilford days I seem to remember the dot in the word SAFETY denotes the country the film stock was made in.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Bill Brandenstein
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1632
From: California
Registered: Aug 2007

posted July 17, 2008 07:14 PM

Email Bill Brandenstein

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

For those who are new to this, if you go to the 'front side' of film-tech.com, Brad has a really great chart posted there under manuals/instructional documents/"Kodak film edge code chart (8mm-16mm)", which, in spite of its labelling, can apply to 35mm as well. (See also Kodak's page at http://www.kodak.com/US/plugins/acrobat/en/motion/support/datecode.pdf).

But this would explain the improvement in color, because reel one is from 1979 (only the circles count) and reel two from 1982. The asterisk between the s and a indicates the film was manufactured in Rochester (see Jeff Joseph's chart at http://www.sabucat.com/?pg=datecodechart).

When I suggested bad lab work above, I'd assumed it was the NEW version of the film, not "normal" fading.

| IP: Logged

John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 17, 2008 08:54 PM

Email John Whittle

Edit/Delete Post

Kev,

Is this a scope print? The flat version was the tv edit. Since it's US stock then I'd guess it's a Movielab print and the problem is the age of the first reel. These aren't from the first print run which was back in the late 60s. Someday I'll run across my print again and put it up on rewinds and take a look at it.

You didn't mention, but was it on acetate or estar?

John

| IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 18, 2008 12:15 PM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

I'm not a 16MM collector per se, but this series of posts is quite interesting.

I have an optical sound Super 8 feature of "Shout At The Devil, and I know that this print was manufactured all at the same time ...

and yet, I note that there are different varieties of Eastman stock used, some "23" some "28" and the last in the thirties.
The color does vary in quality from reel to reel.

I always been a little baffled about these numbers. Are these merely the "batch" number (as in that particular run of film) or are each number given to a particular type or mix of color, a specific difference in color type (for instance, SP or L.P.P.)

curious ...

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 18, 2008 02:09 PM

Email Steven Sigel

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Kevin - Your first reel is '79 and the second reel is '82 (pre-lpp)... Sounds like normal Eastman fade to me...

the dot after the S indicates USA. (SAF * TY is UK)

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 18, 2008 05:53 PM

Edit/Delete Post

Steven, This is why I have been confused over all this. You said Kodak SP and Eastman LPP! So was there stocks marked as Eastman which were in fact SP?

There are a lot of posts on the 16mm forum saying that that they have xyz for sale on Eastman which is fading which means that all Eastman is NOT LPP.

John, It's Acetate stock and a Flat print.

Looks like I was sold a print which is fading. This pee's me off no end especially as the seller said it was in great condition with good colour. The seller is a member of this forum as well [Frown]

[Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 18, 2008 07:03 PM

Email Steven Sigel

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hi Kevin,
You lost me.

Your first reel is 1979 Eastman (not SP or LPP) and your second reel is 1982 Eastman (not SP or LPP)....

What would make you think it was SP?

FYI Eastman and SP co-existed for quite a while. SP stock is labeled "KODAK SP" . SP was around from about 1974 to 1981 or so (not sure of the exact years).

Normal Eastman stock (the fading kind) was around from 1954-1982.

LPP stock started being produced in late 1982. So in 1982 you can have regular Eastman (just marked EASTMAN) or LPP (marked EASTMAN LPP).

From 1983 (to the best of my knowlege) all of the stock produced by Eastman was LPP.

| IP: Logged

Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted July 18, 2008 09:36 PM

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Following on from Steven's post, am I right in saying that some years after 1983 (can't recall when), Kodak dropped the 'LPP' from stock markings, just leaving 'EASTMAN', although it continued to be LPP?

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

| IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 19, 2008 03:00 AM

Email Michael O'Regan

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Yes, Adrian, you're quite right. I think from around 1992 or so the LPP was dropped from the edge markings.

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 19, 2008 01:35 PM

Edit/Delete Post

Not to worry Steven I think I got confused as well. It was just that you mentioned in an earlier post:

It's "Kodak SP" and "Eastman LPP"....

But its obvious to me now from other posts that there was non LPP Eastman which fades and this is what I have here.....bugger!

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 19, 2008 10:24 PM

Author's Homepage

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

What about me question?

The repose it, do those numbers (Eastman 23, 28, 32), deal with specific stock numbers, specific batches, (in other words, a one time run through the developers), or a number that deals which a specific kind of Eastman, (perhaps one is better for night scenes, some not, ect.

What about it lads?

--------------------
"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

| IP: Logged

Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted July 20, 2008 02:21 AM

Email Michael O'Regan

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Osi,

My feeling is that these are indeed batch numbers. I have some prints with the same.

These numbers are not of any importance to collectors, to the best of my knowledge.

-Mike

| IP: Logged

Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 20, 2008 09:37 AM

Email Steven Sigel

Send New Private Message

Edit/Delete Post

Hi Kevin,

Ah, I see the confusion -- I meant that when you see LPP stock, it's marked "Eastman"... Not that when you see "Eastman" stock, it's automatically LPP...

To Adrian: Mike is right -- they started dropping the LPP on some stock as early as the mid-80s, and completely dropped it by the mid 90s (I think I've seen stuff from later than 92 that was still marked LPP)... However, it's all LPP no matter how it's marked...

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Move Topic

Delete Topic

next oldest topic

next newest topic

Printer-friendly view of this topic

Visit www.film-tech.com for free equipment manual downloads. Copyright 2003-2019 Film-Tech Cinema Systems LLC

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2