8mm Forum: Saggy, Baggy Film Winding

This is topic Saggy, Baggy Film Winding in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 25, 2008, 12:07 PM:

Heck of a topic title, but it fits....

Recently I bought a 3000-ft reel on EBay for one of my features.
The seller, who had no film experience, said there was 'a film' on the reel, entitled "Jackals", and that he would ship it as was.
The film (a South African B-Western (!) featuring Vincent Price) was neatly leadered and such, but rattled and flexed rhythmically from side to side when running. Dry film, it seemed.
The thing was the familiar Eastman rosy-red, but I thought I'd give it a chance by bathing it in FilmRenew. So, 24 hrs soak, and then 24 hrs. drying. So now all is well, right? Actually, no, all is worse.....

The film seems incapable of winding correctly onto a reel, whether I use the long-play tower or one of my Eiki machines to do it.
Initially, I wound it through at rewind speed, and it caused the film to sag so badly on the take-up reel that I had to stop and cut it. It was about to overspill on one side of the reel (not to mention 'sloshing' hard enough that it caused the Eiki to inch backwards on the platform.)
Here is a pic of it on the take-up reel after the absolute best job of winding it, by playing it in real-time through the projector:

The film is not for keeps, so I am just curious for future reference: what is going on with it that has made it so 'strectchy' and uncontrollable after being conditioned in FR? I have had dry, brittle film, gummy film, bad sprockets, but this is a new one.

Any ideas are welcome,
Claus.

Posted by John Whittle (Member # 22) on October 25, 2008, 08:09 PM:

I've run across this on a print with like results. Even reverse winding with a tite-wind attachment on a core for several weeks resulted in no improvement.

Due to heat or storage problems, the film base now has a "set" that keeps it from wrapping and winding properly.

I don't know what's happened chemically, if this is early VS or just a plasticser failure; but I haven't found a cure.

John

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 25, 2008, 10:26 PM:

John,

The thought of VS went through my head for a moment, but since the film has no smell, it wasn't something I worried more about.

However, since the film will be thrown away, i am glad you mentioned it, because I will clean the reels it was on before thinking of using them again.

Thanks for chiming in,
Claus.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on October 26, 2008, 03:17 AM:

Claus,
I had a print one reel of which behaved just like this.

Following 12 weeks use of Liquid Film Plasticiser it was perfectly fine.

If you're going to throw the film out anyway then it doesn't matter - but, for future reference you might want to look LFP up.

-Mike

Posted by Dan Lail (Member # 18) on October 26, 2008, 01:55 PM:

Claus, I have a couple of feature films with this problem. Put it on the rewinds and apply film renew. This will give you a tight hand rewind and lubricate it so it will runs smooth throught he gate. When threading it up on the projector put the take-up reel in the rewind position(up), put a 180 degree twist in the film before connecting it to the take-up reel. It should then take up without sagging. Remember to twist it again bewfore rewinding.

Posted by Claus Harding (Member # 702) on October 27, 2008, 06:35 PM:

Dan,

Thanks for the idea; I will try that.

Claus.

Posted by David Erskine (Member # 1244) on October 27, 2008, 06:50 PM:

Sir Dan is right - and it really works. Previously I'd used a 2200 reel for a 1600 film - but sometimes it still sagged.

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