8mm Forum: Saggy, Baggy Film Winding

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Topic: Saggy, Baggy Film Winding

Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 25, 2008 12:07 PM

Heck of a topic title, but it fits....

Recently I bought a 3000-ft reel on EBay for one of my features.
The seller, who had no film experience, said there was 'a film' on the reel, entitled "Jackals", and that he would ship it as was.
The film (a South African B-Western (!) featuring Vincent Price) was neatly leadered and such, but rattled and flexed rhythmically from side to side when running. Dry film, it seemed.
The thing was the familiar Eastman rosy-red, but I thought I'd give it a chance by bathing it in FilmRenew. So, 24 hrs soak, and then 24 hrs. drying. So now all is well, right? Actually, no, all is worse.....

The film seems incapable of winding correctly onto a reel, whether I use the long-play tower or one of my Eiki machines to do it.
Initially, I wound it through at rewind speed, and it caused the film to sag so badly on the take-up reel that I had to stop and cut it. It was about to overspill on one side of the reel (not to mention 'sloshing' hard enough that it caused the Eiki to inch backwards on the platform.)
Here is a pic of it on the take-up reel after the absolute best job of winding it, by playing it in real-time through the projector:

The film is not for keeps, so I am just curious for future reference: what is going on with it that has made it so 'strectchy' and uncontrollable after being conditioned in FR? I have had dry, brittle film, gummy film, bad sprockets, but this is a new one.

Any ideas are welcome,
Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 25, 2008 08:09 PM

I've run across this on a print with like results. Even reverse winding with a tite-wind attachment on a core for several weeks resulted in no improvement.

Due to heat or storage problems, the film base now has a "set" that keeps it from wrapping and winding properly.

I don't know what's happened chemically, if this is early VS or just a plasticser failure; but I haven't found a cure.

John

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 25, 2008 10:26 PM

John,

The thought of VS went through my head for a moment, but since the film has no smell, it wasn't something I worried more about.

However, since the film will be thrown away, i am glad you mentioned it, because I will clean the reels it was on before thinking of using them again.

Thanks for chiming in,
Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted October 26, 2008 03:17 AM

Claus,
I had a print one reel of which behaved just like this.

Following 12 weeks use of Liquid Film Plasticiser it was perfectly fine.

If you're going to throw the film out anyway then it doesn't matter - but, for future reference you might want to look LFP up.

-Mike

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Dan Lail
Film God

Posts: 2110
From: Loganville, Georgia, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 26, 2008 01:55 PM

Claus, I have a couple of feature films with this problem. Put it on the rewinds and apply film renew. This will give you a tight hand rewind and lubricate it so it will runs smooth throught he gate. When threading it up on the projector put the take-up reel in the rewind position(up), put a 180 degree twist in the film before connecting it to the take-up reel. It should then take up without sagging. Remember to twist it again bewfore rewinding.

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Claus Harding
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1149
From: Washington DC
Registered: Oct 2006

posted October 27, 2008 06:35 PM

Dan,

Thanks for the idea; I will try that.

Claus.

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"Why are there shots of deserts in a scene that's supposed to take place in Belgium during the winter?" (Review of 'Battle of the Bulge'.)

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David Erskine
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 230
From: Letchworth Garden City, Herts
Registered: Aug 2008

posted October 27, 2008 06:50 PM

Sir Dan is right - and it really works. Previously I'd used a 2200 reel for a 1600 film - but sometimes it still sagged.

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I've NEVER let failure go to MY head!

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