8mm Forum: CL16 vs NT1

This is topic CL16 vs NT1 in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 23, 2008, 05:51 PM:

Just wanted to ask you guys which you prefer. Im thinking of changing my CL16 for an NT1. I think I would prefer an amp with both trebble and bass controls instead of the Elmo's Tone control. I also think that the swing open gate is better than the fixed gate of the Elmo.
The swing gate has adjustment to make sure the optics give a sharp pic from edge to edge but this adjustment is not possible on the CL16.

Thanks in advance for your input, Kev.

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 24, 2008, 01:50 AM:

Strangely, some years ago, I changed my NT2 for a CL.
The Elmo is more gentle on old films than the Eiki.
The sound issue can be solved by connecting the projector to the phono line of an old analog amplifier, it works like a charm.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 24, 2008, 02:20 AM:

Kev

Why change? Elfs are cheap enough to buy.

I have both of these and would never trust an Elf to run an old, and perhaps shrunk, treasured film.

The Elf's two tone controls are obviously more useful but the Elmo does quite well with its tonal range.

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on November 24, 2008, 06:10 AM:

Kev,

I'm very fond of the Eiki's (both the SL and the NT series). I put the SL on the table at Ealing for a fairly high price, because I didn't mind to take it back home. When it sold, I didn't like to see it go. You are right about the treble and bass controls (but I use Jean-Marc's solution as well; works a treat) and I like the swing out gate a lot better too than the fixed Elmo gate. It is also easier to clean.
But, like Jean-Marc and Maurice said the Eiki's are fuzzy about print quality. You notice every little splice in a print (no matter how well the splice is made). Elmo's are more forgiving.
The other difference is the level of noise, the Elmo's (at least the CL) is quite a bit less noisy to operate than the Eiki's (at least than the NT2 and SL's I had).
The other advantage that Eiki's have, is that it is easier to find short lenses. Especially the 25mm lens for the Eiki pops up fairly often, while it is difficult to find anything shorter than 35mm for the Elmo.
If I were you, I would try to find a bit of space for a second machine. I'm sure that as soon as I've created a bit more space and see a nice Eiki for sale, I won't be able to resist. But without getting rid of the CL!

Cheers,

- Rob

Posted by Robert Tucker (Member # 386) on November 24, 2008, 07:26 AM:

Kev,

Trust me go with an NT1/2 or 3 i have an NT2 which plays both optical and mag sound. And i have never really had a problem with it. I bought this projector in new condition and apart from a small adjustment to the claw. I have never had a problem.

I have had many 16mm Projectors Bauer P7 8, Bell & Howell TQ1,2 3. But i have always stuck with my ELF/Eiki. Second choice would be a Bauer as you can't beat the Germans for quality.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 24, 2008, 09:19 AM:

The Rank Aldis projectors (of which I have two) were badged Bauers but I wouldn't advise a purchase due to lack of available spares unless it's cheap and in perfect running order. They are certainly robust, heavy, and very well made.

The earlier projectors used the little A1/223 (very cheap!) and the later models used the very common A1/259.

Posted by Tony Milman (Member # 7) on November 24, 2008, 02:28 PM:

Maurice, I didn't know that re spares. I bought a Rank Aldis a few yrs back and it is in nice condition. The only thing that went wrong was the capacitor on the motor that I managed to source quite easily.

What are the pitfalls with this machine?

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 24, 2008, 02:33 PM:

Kev, honestly, why going the halogen route ? Xenon Eikis pop up regularly on Ebay and go for a few hundred euros. I'm actually gonna buy one within the next few months, since I can't find an affordable Elmo CX550 (the last one I saw was tagged at 2000 euros).
Keep the CL as your home-use machine and grab an Eiki Xenon for the big shows.

And for those looking for a shorter lens for Elmo, I have a 38mm and a 20mm for sale, contact me off the forum for details.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on November 24, 2008, 02:37 PM:

Jean-Marc,

Very rarely have I seen Xenon Eikis on Ebay UK.

I presume you're referring to Ebay US - shipping of a Xenon machine from the US is pretty expensive.

-Mike

Posted by Jean-Marc Toussaint (Member # 270) on November 24, 2008, 02:46 PM:

Michael, I don't watch Ebay US, except listings from sellers I know (Brian, Dan, Osi...) I've seen some machines on Ebay UK in the past, in the last few weeks, there were a few for sale in France (I missed a couple). So keep your eyes peeled.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on November 24, 2008, 02:54 PM:

Tony

Can't say I know of any pitfalls with the Rank Aldis.

My earlier machine too refused to run due to a faulty starting capacitor. It's difficult to source one small enough to fit in the very restrictive space available. However, the engineer who repaired it did fortunately manage to find one.

[ November 25, 2008, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on November 24, 2008, 03:06 PM:

I had a Bauer P8 for a while. It developed a fault which I couldn't get to the bottom of (wouldn't run certain prints - with no common denominator).

I sold it on - the buyer being aware of the fault, of course!!

Bauer and therefore Rank Aldis parts are available from Kinotechnik as far as I know.

-Mike

Posted by Adrian Winchester (Member # 248) on November 25, 2008, 10:55 PM:

Kev,
If you decide to buy an NT1 and would like a little-used one in 'like new' condition for a low price, send me a PM and I'll supply details of one I have available. There is a 'catch' in that it has a couple of problems that need rectifying, but fixing these might not be much of a challenge from your point of view.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on November 26, 2008, 04:00 AM:

Hi Adrian,

The email function is not working on the forum anymore due to some issues we had earlier this year. Maybe you could drop me a line at: [super8 at mrelmo dot co dot uk]

Many thanks, Kev.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on December 03, 2008, 03:42 PM:

Well I'm pleased to say that the deal with Adrian has been done and the NT1 is on it's way....cant wait to see it in action.

Now who has a 32/35mm lens for sale.

Kev.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on December 04, 2008, 03:18 AM:

Kev

Are you keeping the Elmo?

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on December 04, 2008, 03:26 AM:

I think you'll be pleased Kevin. The Eikis really are solid, reliable old workhorses.

-Mike

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on December 04, 2008, 03:50 AM:

Kev,

I'm using a (Eiki branded) 30-70mm zoom lens with my Eiki. There was one on Ebay UK a few months ago (which didn't sell, surprisingly). I find the extra 5mm on either side very useful (i.e. compared with the more common 35-65mm zoom lenses). It's a very nice sharp lens, well worth looking out for. I wish there was one for the Elmo as well...

- Rob

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on December 04, 2008, 05:18 AM:

Rob, thanks for that info. That lens sounds like it's got a far more useful range and would be perfect for use at home where I normally show my films. Now to find one.

Maurice, I haven't made a decision about the CL yet. I'm waiting till I get the Eiki up and running so I can make some comparisons between the two. Providing the Eiki does all I want it to and is reasonably quiet then I will probably shift the CL on.

I have a 35-65mm Elmo Zoom and an Elmo 20mm lens for the CL too.

Kev.

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on December 04, 2008, 07:01 AM:

Rob,

Is that a zoom attachment or a one-piece zoom lens?

I have a zoom attachment (Eiki make) to a Eiki 50mm prime and its OK. But a singular 35mm lens I find streets ahead in terms of image sharpness and focus across the field.

-Mike

Posted by Rob Koeling (Member # 35) on December 04, 2008, 11:56 AM:

It is a proper (one-piece) zoom lens. It is pretty bright as well (rated as 1:1.3 - 1:1.8).
I don't like zoom attachments and only use them if it can't be helped.

- Rob

Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on December 04, 2008, 01:20 PM:

Yep, I agree.

Posted by Gareth Dressler (Member # 1285) on December 06, 2008, 09:02 PM:

quote:
The sound issue can be solved by connecting the projector to the phono line of an old analog amplifier, it works like a charm.

This is what I do also, but I have a jack splitter($3 ebay) that goes to RCA audio and plug that into my home theatre.

Posted by Kevin Faulkner (Member # 6) on December 07, 2008, 02:13 PM:

Well I have to say I am impressed with the NT1. It's not much noisier than the CL and everything else about it is good. I just want to get one of the zoom lenses that Rob spoke of.

PS. Yes the CL may well now go.

Kev.

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