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Author Topic: CL16 vs NT1
Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 23, 2008 05:51 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Just wanted to ask you guys which you prefer. Im thinking of changing my CL16 for an NT1. I think I would prefer an amp with both trebble and bass controls instead of the Elmo's Tone control. I also think that the swing open gate is better than the fixed gate of the Elmo.
The swing gate has adjustment to make sure the optics give a sharp pic from edge to edge but this adjustment is not possible on the CL16.

Thanks in advance for your input, Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted November 24, 2008 01:50 AM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Strangely, some years ago, I changed my NT2 for a CL.
The Elmo is more gentle on old films than the Eiki.
The sound issue can be solved by connecting the projector to the phono line of an old analog amplifier, it works like a charm.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 24, 2008 02:20 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev

Why change? Elfs are cheap enough to buy.

I have both of these and would never trust an Elf to run an old, and perhaps shrunk, treasured film.

The Elf's two tone controls are obviously more useful but the Elmo does quite well with its tonal range.

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Maurice

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 24, 2008 06:10 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

I'm very fond of the Eiki's (both the SL and the NT series). I put the SL on the table at Ealing for a fairly high price, because I didn't mind to take it back home. When it sold, I didn't like to see it go. You are right about the treble and bass controls (but I use Jean-Marc's solution as well; works a treat) and I like the swing out gate a lot better too than the fixed Elmo gate. It is also easier to clean.
But, like Jean-Marc and Maurice said the Eiki's are fuzzy about print quality. You notice every little splice in a print (no matter how well the splice is made). Elmo's are more forgiving.
The other difference is the level of noise, the Elmo's (at least the CL) is quite a bit less noisy to operate than the Eiki's (at least than the NT2 and SL's I had).
The other advantage that Eiki's have, is that it is easier to find short lenses. Especially the 25mm lens for the Eiki pops up fairly often, while it is difficult to find anything shorter than 35mm for the Elmo.
If I were you, I would try to find a bit of space for a second machine. I'm sure that as soon as I've created a bit more space and see a nice Eiki for sale, I won't be able to resist. But without getting rid of the CL!

Cheers,

- Rob

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Robert Tucker
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 688
From: Essex, UK
Registered: May 2005

- posted November 24, 2008 07:26 AM      Profile for Robert Tucker     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

Trust me go with an NT1/2 or 3 i have an NT2 which plays both optical and mag sound. And i have never really had a problem with it. I bought this projector in new condition and apart from a small adjustment to the claw. I have never had a problem.

I have had many 16mm Projectors Bauer P7 8, Bell & Howell TQ1,2 3. But i have always stuck with my ELF/Eiki. Second choice would be a Bauer as you can't beat the Germans for quality.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 24, 2008 09:19 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
The Rank Aldis projectors (of which I have two) were badged Bauers but I wouldn't advise a purchase due to lack of available spares unless it's cheap and in perfect running order. They are certainly robust, heavy, and very well made.

The earlier projectors used the little A1/223 (very cheap!) and the later models used the very common A1/259.

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Maurice

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 24, 2008 02:28 PM      Profile for Tony Milman   Author's Homepage   Email Tony Milman   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Maurice, I didn't know that re spares. I bought a Rank Aldis a few yrs back and it is in nice condition. The only thing that went wrong was the capacitor on the motor that I managed to source quite easily.

What are the pitfalls with this machine?

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Tony

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted November 24, 2008 02:33 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev, honestly, why going the halogen route ? Xenon Eikis pop up regularly on Ebay and go for a few hundred euros. I'm actually gonna buy one within the next few months, since I can't find an affordable Elmo CX550 (the last one I saw was tagged at 2000 euros).
Keep the CL as your home-use machine and grab an Eiki Xenon for the big shows.

And for those looking for a shorter lens for Elmo, I have a 38mm and a 20mm for sale, contact me off the forum for details.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 24, 2008 02:37 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Jean-Marc,

Very rarely have I seen Xenon Eikis on Ebay UK.

I presume you're referring to Ebay US - shipping of a Xenon machine from the US is pretty expensive.

-Mike

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

- posted November 24, 2008 02:46 PM      Profile for Jean-Marc Toussaint   Author's Homepage   Email Jean-Marc Toussaint   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Michael, I don't watch Ebay US, except listings from sellers I know (Brian, Dan, Osi...) I've seen some machines on Ebay UK in the past, in the last few weeks, there were a few for sale in France (I missed a couple). So keep your eyes peeled.

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 24, 2008 02:54 PM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Tony

Can't say I know of any pitfalls with the Rank Aldis.

My earlier machine too refused to run due to a faulty starting capacitor. It's difficult to source one small enough to fit in the very restrictive space available. However, the engineer who repaired it did fortunately manage to find one.

[ November 25, 2008, 02:09 AM: Message edited by: Maurice Leakey ]

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Maurice

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted November 24, 2008 03:06 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I had a Bauer P8 for a while. It developed a fault which I couldn't get to the bottom of (wouldn't run certain prints - with no common denominator).

I sold it on - the buyer being aware of the fault, of course!!

Bauer and therefore Rank Aldis parts are available from Kinotechnik as far as I know.

-Mike

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

- posted November 25, 2008 10:55 PM      Profile for Adrian Winchester     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,
If you decide to buy an NT1 and would like a little-used one in 'like new' condition for a low price, send me a PM and I'll supply details of one I have available. There is a 'catch' in that it has a couple of problems that need rectifying, but fixing these might not be much of a challenge from your point of view.

--------------------
Adrian Winchester

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted November 26, 2008 04:00 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Hi Adrian,

The email function is not working on the forum anymore due to some issues we had earlier this year. Maybe you could drop me a line at: [super8 at mrelmo dot co dot uk]

Many thanks, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 03, 2008 03:42 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Well I'm pleased to say that the deal with Adrian has been done and the NT1 is on it's way....cant wait to see it in action.

Now who has a 32/35mm lens for sale.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 04, 2008 03:18 AM      Profile for Maurice Leakey   Email Maurice Leakey   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev

Are you keeping the Elmo?

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Maurice

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 04, 2008 03:26 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
I think you'll be pleased Kevin. The Eikis really are solid, reliable old workhorses.

-Mike

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 04, 2008 03:50 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Kev,

I'm using a (Eiki branded) 30-70mm zoom lens with my Eiki. There was one on Ebay UK a few months ago (which didn't sell, surprisingly). I find the extra 5mm on either side very useful (i.e. compared with the more common 35-65mm zoom lenses). It's a very nice sharp lens, well worth looking out for. I wish there was one for the Elmo as well...

- Rob

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 04, 2008 05:18 AM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Rob, thanks for that info. That lens sounds like it's got a far more useful range and would be perfect for use at home where I normally show my films. Now to find one.

Maurice, I haven't made a decision about the CL yet. I'm waiting till I get the Eiki up and running so I can make some comparisons between the two. Providing the Eiki does all I want it to and is reasonably quiet then I will probably shift the CL on.

I have a 35-65mm Elmo Zoom and an Elmo 20mm lens for the CL too.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 04, 2008 07:01 AM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Rob,

Is that a zoom attachment or a one-piece zoom lens?

I have a zoom attachment (Eiki make) to a Eiki 50mm prime and its OK. But a singular 35mm lens I find streets ahead in terms of image sharpness and focus across the field.

-Mike

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Rob Koeling
Master Film Handler

Posts: 399
From: Brighton, UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 04, 2008 11:56 AM      Profile for Rob Koeling     Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
It is a proper (one-piece) zoom lens. It is pretty bright as well (rated as 1:1.3 - 1:1.8).
I don't like zoom attachments and only use them if it can't be helped.

- Rob

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

- posted December 04, 2008 01:20 PM      Profile for Michael O'Regan   Email Michael O'Regan   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
Yep, I agree.

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Gareth Dressler
Junior
Posts: 8
From: Vancouver, BC, Canada
Registered: Sep 2008

- posted December 06, 2008 09:02 PM      Profile for Gareth Dressler   Author's Homepage   Email Gareth Dressler   Send New Private Message       Edit/Delete Post 
quote:
The sound issue can be solved by connecting the projector to the phono line of an old analog amplifier, it works like a charm.
This is what I do also, but I have a jack splitter($3 ebay) that goes to RCA audio and plug that into my home theatre.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

- posted December 07, 2008 02:13 PM      Profile for Kevin Faulkner         Edit/Delete Post 
Well I have to say I am impressed with the NT1. It's not much noisier than the CL and everything else about it is good. I just want to get one of the zoom lenses that Rob spoke of.

PS. Yes the CL may well now go.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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