8mm Forum: Elmo TRV-16 HELP with film flutter...

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Topic: Elmo TRV-16 HELP with film flutter...

Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 06, 2012 11:05 AM

Hello,

I would like to start this post by introducing my current setup at my office to do film to video transfers. I work with a TRV-16 that sends the audio/video signal out to a Sony HVRM25AU deck which transfers the image and sound via firewire to FCP.

The majority of the reels that I handle are home movies from customers who are trying to archive their family's history, but once in awhile I get a job that is from a production house that is trying to archive reels of celebrities, or educational footage, etc. In the past I have experienced minor problems with this machine but nothing that could not be fixed swiftly. But recently the TRV-16 will not transfer this particular order of reels that came in a few weeks ago. When I try to play the film in the machine it will transfer the footage smoothly for about a minute and then all of a sudden the loop adjustment roller at the top of the machine will cause enough tension on the reel that it will cause this flutter effect. If I pull down on the bottom roller the film will readjust itself and the moving image looks consistent again.

This will happen several times when transferring one reel from this order and the result is always terrible because there is an audio track on the majority of the reels so this causes the audio to sound terrible during the process of the transfer.

It's very strange that there has only been happening with this particular order because I have been able to transfer other clients orders with no problems.

Does anyone have any advice about what I can do to resolve this problem? Anything is appreciated.

thank you

all is well

fields

I have included an image with an explanation of what I mean by top and bottom rollers.

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fields

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Jim Schrader
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1628
From: Savage, MN, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 06, 2012 02:42 PM

Hi Bryon, and welcome to the forum on here there are lots of years of expirence of members here and all willing to help.

While I have not used one of these it cannot be much different that a regular unit except for it has no lens, I do own a super 8 TRV unit. Have you checked the films sprockets before running it? these can cause the film to loose its loop or it can be in your gate but if you have not had problems with others it probably is not that, also check any splices these can be made bad as well and cause problems. I own 4 16mm units if one will run bad in one I try another unit, I'm sure you do not have a second machine just for regular use you could try it in that and see if you get the same problem.

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jim schrader
"Let's see “do I have that title already?"

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 06, 2012 04:23 PM

It's just a thought Byron,but I was thinking that maybe the
spindle on the feed arm could be a little stiff, while a film is
running just turn the feed spool by hand to relieve any tension
and let it feed loose film,it's worth a try.Let us know the outcome.

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 07, 2012 08:06 PM

I've never had the exact problem you mention, but I've noticed that with shrunken film, you often get jitter on the TRV (and other Elmos). The solution to this is to order tighter springs for the gate (Larry Urbanski has them) and swap them on a gate. I have two gates - a "tight" gate and a normal gate. I use the tight gate for jittery film.

Not sure if this is what you are seeing or something else.

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 08, 2012 01:25 PM

Hey Everyone!

Thanks for quick and informative responses.

Jim, I checked the film sprockets earlier and they seem to be fine. I can't find any signs of damage from previous threading or any bad splicing. I wish I had a back up unit here at my office like you, but unfortunately I am stuck with this one.

Hugh, I tried a number of different methods during the process of the film running through the machine. First, I tried relieving some of the tension on the film and allowed the machine to feed it loosely and still got the same result. After that I tried opposite (just for kicks) and put a little more stress on the film as it went through the machine by tugging the film between my index and middle fingers. Again, I received the same results.

Steven, I will purchase tighter springs for the gate and see if this works. Thank you for the suggestion.

Its funny, during this process I have still been able to transfer other 16mm reels from other clients on the same machine without any problems. But, as soon as I try to transfer any reel from this particular client I consistently get the same problem.

You all have been a great help I will keep you posted on the results.

all is well

fields

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fields

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 08, 2012 01:37 PM

Hi Bryon,could it be something your customer has coated his film
in,or maybe they want lubricated or it might be different film
stock as in the thickness of film, which is where Steve's idea
would come in, regarding stronger tension in the gate.

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 08, 2012 02:21 PM

Hey Hugh,

I think you might be onto something in regards to the thickness of the film. The film stock does look to be a bit thicker than other footage that I have received in the past. This might have to do with where the footage is coming from. I am not allowed to give out any names of the clients that I transfer reels for but I did notice that the majority of the film was coming from some top corporate television broadcasting companies.

I talked to Urbanski films just a minute ago and the people on the phone knew immediately what the problem was and suggested the springs like Steven suggested earlier. The man I spoke with today referred to the problem as "lifting" in the gate rather than "fluttering."

thanks again

fields

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fields

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Hugh Thompson Scott
Film God

Posts: 3063
From: Gt. Clifton,Cumbria,England
Registered: Jan 2012

posted August 08, 2012 03:43 PM

Well done Bryon,I hope you've got it sussed, as these little problems can be most annoying,especially when it's your bread &
butter.

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted August 15, 2012 10:58 AM

Hi everyone,

I am still waitng to get the parts to fix the problem of the gate lifting when film passes through the machine, but in the mean I have been chatting with this other film master based out of the UK.

he mentioned something to the extent that cine color film will not pass through auto-loading machines.

does anyone know any more information about this?

I have tried to look this up online ,but haven't had any luck.

thank you

fields

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fields

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Steven Sigel
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 701
From: Massachusetts
Registered: Jun 2003

posted August 27, 2012 08:46 PM

Um, I have no idea what he is talking about.
While I personally HATE autoloaders (the Elmo TRV BTW is not an autoloader, it's a slot loader), there is no difference between B&W and color film stock that would have any impact on projecting with an autoloader...

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Bryon Fields Harrington Jr.
Junior
Posts: 15
From: Brooklyn, NY, USA
Registered: Aug 2012

posted September 13, 2012 01:06 PM

Hello,

I just wanted to give everyone an update on the status of the TRV-16 that I was working on that had the problem with the gate lifting while transferring the film.

I replaced the springs for the gate, like Steven mentioned and that solved the problem. Thank you all for your input.

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fields

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