8mm Forum: Best Practices for Sound

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Topic: Best Practices for Sound

James Peterson
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 10, 2013 10:45 AM

For some reason, I get obsessed with the silliest stuff...I’ll start and end with - How do you handle your 16mm sound? (Because I know this post is long...lol!)

I'm on this sound kick with my 16mm prints. I use an Elmo 16-CL as my primary machine because of the 25mm lens and my smaller room and how quiet it runs, but it’s only OK in terms of sound.

Internal Speaker: Going the internal speaker route, I liked my Eiki SSL-0, Singer Instaload XL, and was really impressed by a 60’s Internal speaker Tube Bell and Howell model that a friend loaned me to check out. It seemed rather strong and full. I have a tube Ampro Stylist, but I haven’t gotten it right yet [Mad]

.

External Speaker: As part of this obsession, I bought a 50’s Filmosound speaker from the 50's and placed it near the screen and the sound was much better but it has limited high range with one big driver (of course the Eiki even sounded better with that, but I didn’t have the chance to try the tube B&H).

External Amplification: Thinking that I liked tubes, I bought a ¼” mono to stereo split (just to have both speakers play) on a hifi set that I had near the projector. I found that the speaker jacks are far too hot on these projectors and I get a bunch of distortion through a stereo systems or headphones. But I can’t find a low level output on any of these machines it seems.

How do you handle your sound? I know sound is a matter of personal taste, but what have you found that you like the best?

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James "Pete" Peterson II

Far too many machines--I'm sick

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted September 10, 2013 02:42 PM

I think that a 16mm projector needs to have both bass and treble tone controls, this is to get the best from the sound track, irrespective of the speakers that you use. For average personal use the internal speakers are quite adequate.

Whilst the Elmo 16CL is a very useful machine with its instant slot loading it does, of course, only have the one tone control. It works quite well, but it's a pity that Elmo didn't just go one better with two tone controls.

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Maurice

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James Peterson
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 10, 2013 03:54 PM

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James "Pete" Peterson II

Far too many machines--I'm sick

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James Peterson
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 10, 2013 03:54 PM

Good point. That might explain the good sound of the Eiki SSL. Then you have some like the Telex (Singer) Instaload XL where the "Tone" control is like a "BBE" processor/dynamic control--goes from sounding "thin/nasally" on the left to "full ranged/thick/boomy" to the right. Very strange...

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James "Pete" Peterson II

Far too many machines--I'm sick

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011

posted September 11, 2013 02:34 PM

the best proj for sound quality is the bell and howell 644 opt and mag theres nothing will beat them I have 6 ,but in my opinion if showing a musical eg glen miller story you cant beat a debrie d16 black model 25 amp with a good valve amp the sound is awesome

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James Peterson
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 11, 2013 03:40 PM

Thanks for the reply! I've heard about the B&H 644 and always wanted one, but not sure how popular they were in the USA. I've never had the opportunity to see/hear one in person. I'm not familiar with the Debrie. I suspect I favor that valve amp sound--I thought about inserting my tubed Little Dot III headphone amp btw my projector and stereo, but I've always been afraid that the projector's speaker output was too hot for my little amp and would damage it.

I really want to get a valve (tube) B&H. Were the manual load models more reliable in terms of the worm gear that everyone talks about? (my poor B&H Autoload 1552b is cracked like a open-sided women's bracelet--locked up and stored in the closet [Frown]

) I haven't justified fixing it because I have all these other machines.

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James "Pete" Peterson II

Far too many machines--I'm sick

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted September 12, 2013 01:39 AM

The British Bell & Howell 640 was the last of the "Wooden Case" models, it had a valve amp and a metal worm. They will go on forever!

In 1962 the 641, 642, 643 and 644 were introduced, these had valve amps but also had the new type worm worm. They were all manual thread.

I have a 644 which was recently converted to use a Xenpow HID 150 lamp which makes a superb outfit. My engineer said that the original worm was still perfect and did not need replacing.

The models mentioned above were initially made in the UK and it's well known that their worms hold up well.

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Maurice

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James Peterson
Film Handler

Posts: 64
From: Williamsburg, VA, USA
Registered: Jun 2013

posted September 12, 2013 06:00 AM

Interesting information. Have any pictures of the 644? Well, at least I'll have one on my computer desktop..lol [Big Grin]

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James "Pete" Peterson II

Far too many machines--I'm sick

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