8mm Forum: Just Who Do You Trust.

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Topic: Just Who Do You Trust.

Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2014 11:37 AM

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hi to all. im 63 years old and new to the forum. i have been collecting 8 and 16mm film since i was nine years old. i have been in and out of the hobby several times over the years in fact just a few years ago i completely sold all my films and went fully digital.however on retireing from work in august last year i wanted to get back into 16mm. which i did.my reason for leaving this hobby in the past was because i kept getting sold films that were falsely described. ie condition not as described by seller. so i decided this time i would only purchase from sellers or dealers i could trust.well it hasnt taken long to be let down yet again. over several months i purchased 2 16mm features from paul foster. they were as described. excellent prints in mint condition. just recently i purchased a third 16mm feature off paul ANIMAL CRACKERS. now this one was really poor. bad print and scratches even though it was advertised as excellent print in mint condition. i complained but seller did not want to know. i paid £110 for it and ended up selling it on ebay for £42. i had by the way given a true description of its condition. so i took a loss. but to me the biggest looser is the seller. i suppose like anything you buy, you only find out how good the aftersales is from a seller is when you have a problem. i find it very sad that a seller has to resort to such tactics to off load a film that has been on there lists for ages. i advise all collectors to ask as many questions they can before commiting to buy.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 21, 2014 12:42 PM

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Is this the print in question?

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/16MM-B-W-sound-feature-film-ANIMAL-CRACKERS-MARX-BROTHERS-1930-2X2000FT-/271475227944?ssPageName=ADME%3AX%3ARTQ%3AGB%3A1123&ViewItem=&item=271475227944&nm a=true&si=Ejh8rRmWC3aNe%252FPt%252BLTIFN%252BCK0c%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557

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Pasquale DAlessio
Film God

Posts: 3523
From: Bristol,RI, USA
Registered: May 2010

posted June 21, 2014 02:01 PM

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Hi Paul

Welcome to the forum!

I have purchased films from Paul Foster in the past and never had a problem. His descriptions have always been spot on.I think sometimes dealers purchase a "lot" of films and can't possibly take the time to watch every one of them. So the dealer may rely on the description given about the film at the time the "lot" is being purchased. And of course, "beauty is in the eye of the beholder". Glad to see you back in the hobby!

Patd

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted June 21, 2014 02:08 PM

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Hello Paul are you sure you are that old lad? Anyway joking apart greetings and welcome to the film fun house. Nice group of new and some very experienced people on here who collectively probably know more today than the industry about film. I know I’m still learning..

It’s always been tricky buying second hand or fifty hand cine as we have no idea how many time or miss uses this type of mechanical media has been put through the mill but in the main I’ve found the Americans to be the best traders over the decades, my experience as I say. We should be prudent, cautious yes and it’s the same with anything else in life isn’t it in life. Oh no I’m getting reflective again! Fleabay is a chancy thing I much prefer the excitement of attending film fairs, looking through the stuff and getting to look at a film. This is something I have tried to encourage at my own film fair particularly if a film is expensive off the shelf. When I sold that Star Wars feature a year or two ago I asked the buyer to pick any reel and I would project it and this is the way to go today. All the current UK professional dealers will gladly accept a film back if you are not happy with its description and offer a refund without question I have found and for me they command a great deal of respect. These are not fleabayers but pro business people and its why I like to support them in continued support of 8mm.

I particularly like dealing with Ind 8 and young Barry who holds a really enthusiastic conversation for film on the telephone. Classic are great but they do get really busy also having the model train business to run so you need to pick your time to ring. Young Mr Foster hunts down rare prints and has helped me much this year already so I owe him many thanks.

Nothing quite like a film evening…. [Smile]

[Smile]

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 21, 2014 02:12 PM

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As I said elsewhere, I've never had a problem with Paul.

I think that with 16mm prints, buyers should be more aware of the difference between the physical condition of the print and the presence of printed-in lines, etc. and ask questions accordingly. At least, this helps to cut down the risk of the buyer being disappointed.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2014 04:13 PM

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thanks to all replies so far. i do appreciate dealers dont have time to view films properly so when your not happy with the description they give i expect a fair and decent responce.sadly this im sorry to say was not the case here.i know that paul foster mainly now sells new dvds on ebay.and this is the main part of his buisness, 8 and 16mm is now only a sideline for him. perhaps he has lost interest in what was once his main income. the film i purchased i showed to several collector friends who have been collecting for years and all agreed how bad it was. and could not understand why it had been listed as an excellent print and mint condition. however receiving such poor service from a so called respected dealer i am not detered
it certainly has not put me off collecting 16mm. but purchase from paul foster again. i do not think so.

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted June 21, 2014 04:35 PM

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I trust them all, but have most problems getting replies from CHC and Reel Image, but they deliver when I do get replies

There is a couple of eBay sellers I had problems with, but it was only a .99 dollar film (though 16 or so in shipping) and he claimed he sent it, but got it back and would send again. Never got it though.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 21, 2014 04:39 PM

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Paul,

If you are still looking for a print of this title. perhaps you could check with the seller in the link I give above. This was a recent auction. It does not appear to have sold and, from the description, it seems to be in better condition than the print you purchased.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2014 04:59 PM

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hi michael. thank you for reply. that michael was the listing i first put on ebay. i then removed it because i thought hang on a minute im doing just what paul foster did. i then relisted giving a true and more honest description. the buyer collected it personally from me. he was fully aware it was not good. but it just goes to show how wrong we can be assuming from what is shown and said. even you thought it looked good. now be honest after reading the first description and seeing the frame shots had you bought it. projected it and then you found it a poor print and scratched would you not feel as cheated as i do.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 21, 2014 05:03 PM

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Well, according to that particular description in the listing, I would have expected just the "odd mark or scratch" and nothing more.

I did, in fact, ask you a question on that print as I was contemplating buying it. The only reason I didn't was because I wasn't able to be certain it was an original.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2014 05:09 PM

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well michael let me just say. two of the collector friends i showed it to said it looked like a dupe. they could well have been right. beleive me i would love you to have been given the oportunity for you to project it yourself. it truely was very poor.

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Michael O'Regan
Film God

Posts: 3085
From: Essex, UK
Registered: Oct 2007

posted June 21, 2014 05:26 PM

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I'm glad I didn't buy it, Paul.
[Smile]

[Smile]

I do feel though, that when listing used 16mm prints, screenshots are vital, particularly if there are scratches, lines, etc.
With shots the seller can give a pretty accurate representation of what's on offer. Some sellers will tolerate more wear on a print, printed in lines, splices, and so on, than others will.
Screen shots should show any damage or printed in marks clearly so that the buyer is more clear on what's on offer.
In addition, and I know I'm in the minority here, with used 16mm, returns should always be accepted. Let's be honest, the true condition of a 16mm print is almost impossible to determine without a viewing.
Many ebay sellers (and some dealers) of 16mm in the UK still are unable to tell the difference between a dupe, a reduction and an original, and therefore should make every effort to accomodate the buyer who doesn't actually know what he's got until he views it.

Again, I'm surprised that Paul Foster didn't accept this return.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 21, 2014 05:38 PM

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yes michael and i wish i had never had bought it. i fully agree with what you say. screen shots are the best way to tell. photoes of frame shots definately give the wrong impression.as is proven from mine. and yes i too am suprised by the sellers attitude. never again with that dealer. dreadful simply dreadful attitude. we live and learn as they say.

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted June 22, 2014 03:17 AM

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Hi Paul. I’m not sure you are right in Mr Foster loosing interest in film as I know he tries to attend just about every film fair going buying in stock, typically rarer titles. Certainly this year alone he has had some rare 8mm features and brand new shorts in his stock list some of which I was fortunate to purchase. It’s not very often you see brand new Derann titles still in the shrink wrap with the old colour artwork these days at less than fleabay prices.

For us in the UK if we lost our remaining film fairs not only would collectors loose a vital opportunity to mix with others but also a chance to search hands on for that special title just as the dealers do.

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 22, 2014 05:35 AM

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hello Lee. hope you are well. it was only a thought re him loseing interest. and yes you see him at film fairs buying stock where he knows a good profit is to be made. it always beats me why more collectors dont make the effort to attend these events where they can pick up the bargains themselves. thank god these events do continue. lets face it when derann ceased trading we all thought that was the end of the blackpool film fair. thankfully to the likes of David Guest it continues. and with Adrian Winchester organising the evening meal. its looking better than ever. and yourself with the accrington fair. these events definately stimulate a hobby that like minded people can still enjoy.

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David Guest
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1704
From: Lancashire, UK
Registered: Oct 2011

posted June 22, 2014 09:14 AM

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re film from paul foster I would have given you a full refund if you would have not been happy with you purchase,re decription I buy lots of films every week and it takes time to sit down and screen them especially during the summer months when I am busy .I have a retired projectionist friend who calls every week and picks up films from me and screens them and he gives me a full detailed description of the films.re dealers if paul is noted as a film dealer you never see him having a table at cine fairs .he is there as a buyer

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Paul Barker
Master Film Handler

Posts: 395
From: Lancashire, England
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 22, 2014 10:38 AM

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hi david. thank you for your reply. fistly let me say i have had several films from yourself as you know. i can honestly say every one has been as you stated. so thank you for that. and yes your correct, paul foster never attends film fairs as a dealer. only a buyer. in fact i think he is the only dealer i know who does this. i remember him telling me some years ago that he couldnt be doing with all the hassle.

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Manuel Pace
Film Handler

Posts: 68
From: MALTA
Registered: Jul 2005

posted July 19, 2014 07:19 AM

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Hi Paul,
I t is good to know you are back collecting 16 mm films, this is for sure a great hobby.
As we all know it does have it's up and downs and it is true that some dealers are hard to deal with especially when you have a problem ! but I think most of us collectors are fine people and great to deal with.
My main collection came from the US and the UK mostly from Derann, for your info I do have some titles for sale at good price GBP75 each, for the following tiles:
TAFFIN
PRESIDEO
DARYL
HORNET'S NEST
NIGHT FLIGHT FROM ASHIYA
and many others all with excellent colour, if you like I can send you a full list if you supply me with your e-mail
Kind Regards
Manuel Pace

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