8mm Forum: Why purchase a Very Faded Print?

This is topic Why purchase a Very Faded Print? in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on May 26, 2015, 07:45 AM:

Hello. I just saw an Auction for "Dawn of the Dead" on Ebay. 16mm print that sold for $500 +. Why would someone pay that much for a print that is almost completely RED?
I don't think a faded Super 8 print would get that much. Are 16mm viewers watching faded prints? I hate faded prints. Just curious if our 16mm brethren here have a different viewpoint in regards to purchasing RED prints.

Posted by Paul Barker (Member # 4318) on May 26, 2015, 07:55 AM:

i never entertained faded or red prints. yet i know many are willing to buy and view them. same thing with badly scratched prints. i have seen collectors at film fairs buy films in this condition.red, pink,or with numerous lines/scratches. rare title or not.to me its stuff for the bin. if its a film i love i want to view it as best as i can get it.which is usually digital these days.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on May 26, 2015, 09:30 AM:

That topic and that film were discussed on the 16mm forum. There are various opinions.

[ May 26, 2015, 11:39 AM: Message edited by: Barry Fritz ]

Posted by Alan Rik (Member # 73) on May 26, 2015, 10:16 AM:

Thanks for the link but I was hoping the 16mm members here could chime in. Last thing I need is another password! [Smile]

Posted by Dave Groves (Member # 4685) on May 26, 2015, 11:31 AM:

The only faded film I've ever bought was 'Thief of Bagdad' simply because I've always loved it, secondly because I've only seen one other copy for sale, thirdly because I could afford it and lastly because the grim reaper is nearer than I'm comfortable with and continued waiting isn't an option. I've never set out to buy faded prints. Didn't need to. I just waited for what I'd got to turn. Don't find a great pleasure in watching a poor print when I can get the same film on blu-ray for a few pounds. But very often one has no choice if owning a print of a particular title is really important. Trouble is red prints never improve.

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on May 26, 2015, 11:45 AM:

Sorry Alan. I thought that link would get you to the thread without having to log in. Basically, most members said they would not show a faded print and therefore would not buy one. Others, only fewer, said they might buy it if it was a print they really, really wanted and were not likely to get otherwise. It was interesting that there were more that a few people that bid on that print and it sold for quite a bit. Most of the members thought the price was way to high, and the print was not worth that much. Others commented a print is worth what someone was willing to pay for it.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 26, 2015, 01:00 PM:

I am always reluctant to buy faded prints, however so long as a film contains some good colour in it, if the sound track is good or can be made even better with digital transfer, then I will buy them on Super 8mm.

One such print that springs to mind is a recent acquisition of the Elvis Viacom print "Girls Girls Girls".

It came to me at a reasonable price for a full feature c/w original box and reels etc and was not as badly faded as another print of this I had already.
The Sound quality was poor on a few of the reels but I have taken a few afternoons out of my days off to re record this one from the DVD.

Now the enjoyment I gain from watching this film is almost as high as any lpp print with standard Derann quality sound.

Return to Sender is fabulous watched and listened to whilst being beamed onto the big screen, and while Elvis films will never be remembered for their brilliant scripts, they hold a charm and historical nostalgia all of their own.
These type of prints are well worth preserving for as long as is possible in my opinion.

While slightly faded prints are never the ones that people desire the most, they can, in many cases, offer great value for money so long as they have been kept in optimum scratch free condition and have other redeeming features like for example, a fantastic stereo sound track.

Personally, so long as the print has no major emulsion scratches and SOME colour, if it is a title you enjoy, there are many bargains still to be had out there.

Totally red prints though should probably never be passed onto another unless the purchaser is fully aware of just HOW faded this particular print is. I have been "had" on many an occasion by "subjectively optimistic" descriptions before now.

In such cases, always demand a screenshot or two before deciding for yourself.

[ May 26, 2015, 06:45 PM: Message edited by: Andrew Woodcock ]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 26, 2015, 03:32 PM:

I find filters to be a great help in transforming a redish fading print into an image more watchable. I have about 5 16mm prints that are in various stages of turning red or losing it's color. Most of these prints I bought not knowing exactly how much the color had degraded. I kept them because the sellers were nice enough to make adjustments in the price and I really liked the movies...and with the filters I can still enjoy viewing them.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 26, 2015, 04:08 PM:

Janice does of course, make a very valid point, however those very red prints are, in my experience irretrievable, no matter what the filter. So a print has to have at least some colour in it for this to be worthwhile as a solution.

Posted by Larry Arpin (Member # 744) on May 26, 2015, 10:42 PM:

I went to a garage sale for the specific purpose of picking up The Amazing Howard Hughes knowing it must be faded. I paid $40 for the full 2-parter. There is a cut down version on DVD. The first part was faded but the 2nd part was on LPP stock. I have some faded Tom & Jerrys on super 8mm & 16mm.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 27, 2015, 08:10 AM:

Hi all

I had my fair share of red/going red prints in 16mm...I don't like them...they are not value for money - in fact they are rubbish..despite your filter - which I have tried to use.
I would suggest that for whatever reason it created what I used to call a selling frenzy...it happens. I got some outrageous prices for some mediocre titles back in the day.. (not red prints)..Only a lunatic would pay $500 for a print that was red - unless conned or involved in a schill bid to crank the price up..

Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on May 27, 2015, 08:11 AM:

On forums I am always reading about people binning either films or projectors. I don't like faded or red prints myself, but what might seem trash to one might be treasure to another. I have also read posts where someone would rather dump a Bell & Howell projector than get the worm replaced because it's cheaper to buy another on Ebay; and what happens when that goes; take it to the local tip, and buy another. I thought most here would be interested in the long term preservation of our films and equipment. What I see is digital being mentioned more and more.

Posted by Mark Silvester (Member # 929) on May 27, 2015, 08:28 AM:

Hi Robert

good to see you back on forums..again..I think that the one thing that unites all is not obsessive "buy" all...but a considered interest in their own perspective of the film/movie/showman elements of the hobby..I do like video p/j...but I also like my 8mm projector...But most of all I like big screen entertainment. And I think this forum encompasses it all now...just my six pennorth worth.. [Eek!]

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 27, 2015, 01:03 PM:

What will always make me tick with film is just how tactile a hobby it actually is.

I have to work hard on my films before I am truly satisfied with them for presentation purposes. Cleaning,splicing, recording,re spooling, artwork etc etc. It all takes huge amounts of time and my energies....but I absolutely love it when at the end I have a full feature to be proud of preferably on one reel with trailers and daysets etc. Just like the cinema experience I remember.

Incidentally I wholeheartedly agree with every sentiment from Roberts post above even though occasionally I have to admit to joining in with the digital equipment debates.

Please don't bin a projector, there is always someone who would want it for spares

Posted by John Hermes (Member # 1367) on May 27, 2015, 11:34 PM:

"Return to Sender is fabulous watched and listened to whilst being beamed onto the big screen, and while Elvis films will never be remembered for their brilliant scripts, they hold a charm and historical nostalgia all of their own.

RETURN TO SENDER - my favorite Elvis song. I had 35mm IB Tech print once of GGG. The color was unbelievable.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on May 28, 2015, 01:28 AM:

Very nice indeed John!! [Smile]

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