8mm Forum: Image shaky, vibrating.

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Topic: Image shaky, vibrating.

Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 14, 2017 12:35 PM

I read that it could be the film needs cleaning. I'm going to purchase VitaFilm, is it any good? Should I get Film Renew instead?

I have provided links to the shaky vibrating image (look at the text) and a video of the projector (maybe something is wrong with it).

I also have the projector on a fold out table.

https://mega.nz/#!vodkGI6a!dRa4XSfhKK6m0pdAB8FYOhO4KD_gNQJdrP8rzJ-jaXk

https://mega.nz/#!Tt1iUbCL!gEp10gTm7v2XwrYe8Ve1-2VyLZX7EeC_AfnJwbZS174

https://mega.nz/#!L18jHKKK!P29JnFHAwSaNeLcFVOoSdJ-xAoDfRsyaJQz7eGS4cXg

[ February 16, 2017, 05:41 PM: Message edited by: Robert Lee ]

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Vidar Olavesen
Film God

Posts: 2232
From: Sarpsborg, Norway
Registered: Nov 2012

posted February 14, 2017 05:34 PM

My Elmos are very picky on film, but just about all of them runs fine after Film Renew cleaning ... Or FilmGuard, both works fine for me

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 14, 2017 05:40 PM

There speaks the voice of a master! [Wink]

All but around 5 makes of projectors on 8mm run like a bag of bolts until you lube your films with something half decent. [Wink]

Lube em up for the good en's, Then your talking!

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 17, 2017 09:32 AM

Thanks, I will try Film Renew.

From my observation however, it seems to be a design flaw of this projector. This Kodak projector 8k5 has an upper and lower loops which vibrates as the film is running, which means the film in the gate is also vibrating hence causing the shaky, vibrating image on screen.

Pic: https://gyazo.com/837a010db8edde1e0a52c084d484935e

This projector has its take-up reel in the front-bottom position. Is there any disadvantages to this versus a projector with both reels in the top position?

The supply reel and the take-up reel are also not aligned, so the film gets skewed during rewind. Is this a problem?

Can someone recommend a 16mm projector that does not have loose forming loops and both reels in the top position?

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Maurice Leakey
Film God

Posts: 5895
From: Bristol. United Kingdom
Registered: Oct 2007

posted February 17, 2017 11:00 AM

Robert
Kodak Pageants are great projectors.
The upper and lower loops are designed to vibrate up and down as the film in the gate has to stop and start 24 times a second whereas the sprockets run at a constant speed.
Are you sure you have closed the gate after lacing?

--------------------
Maurice

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted February 17, 2017 11:20 AM

Yes the gates are closed. I hope Film Renew will fix this then if it's not the projector's fault.

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Barry Fritz
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1061
From: Burnsville, MN, USA
Registered: Dec 2009

posted February 17, 2017 07:04 PM

Pageants are great projectors, but the feed sprocket is closer to the plane of the film gate than I would like. It causes a pretty tight loop that is not kind to splices. The problem with the projectors that have both reels in front is that you need to have a table that the take up reel can protrude over if you are using large reels. That problem is eliminated with the front to back reel set up.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted February 23, 2017 06:07 AM

The majority of 16mm /Super 8mm projectors including Elmos were
originally designed to run acetate film stock.

Hence the need to lube the later thinner polyester film stocks
more often than acetate stocks.

Polyester stock was originally used for the Single 8mm format
cameras and projectors.

[Wink]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Andrew Woodcock
Film God

Posts: 7477
From: Manchester Uk
Registered: Aug 2012

posted February 23, 2017 09:50 AM

You really shouldn't see or hear any difference if the claw is set correctly and the film is good.

Acetate just becomes impossible to project properly if shrunken or really badly warped.

I've just experienced one such example this morning from a very old film that came new to me only a week ago.

Will not project on ANY machine from 6 I have, that all work perfectly fine on good film stock. The pitch of the sprocket holes is too small now.
It will be going back!!

( And yes it is meant to be, and indeed once was, Super 8mm film, not Standard 8mm which would be the first thing to check in this same scenario.)

The pitch of the sprocket holes is now considerably less than how they started out life. Yet another reason why Myler is by far the more superior material to make movie film from imho. Despite its poor adhesive qualities.

No Vinegar, no warping, thinner (more film per reel), stronger (will not tear), far less natural curl and far smoother and more forgiving through the gate when all is how it ought to be. Projectors need more penetration for Acetate than Ester stock, so if it's good on Acetate it can only be even better for Polyester.

This is of course relevant for front sprung gate designed machines which are the vast vast majority and every single one of the Elmo range.

--------------------
"C'mon Baggy..Get with the beat"

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted February 26, 2017 05:25 PM

In my experience estar stock has always caused the most problems
on projection on Elmos even after adjustments.
The stock is just to bloody thin in my opinion.
I have always disliked it even on 35mm.

Plasticky rubbish. It does not even have the feel of FILM !
Give me acetate stock anytime.
Better still Nitrate.

[Wink]

--------------------
" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Robert Lee
Film Handler

Posts: 70
From: San Francsico, CA, USA
Registered: Jan 2017

posted March 01, 2017 11:58 AM

Film renew solved my problem. Thanks everyone.

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