8mm Forum: Van Eck.

This is topic Van Eck. in forum 16mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on March 29, 2019, 03:48 PM:

Brought my Elf NT-1 out of storage recently only to discover that the take-up arm belt had disintegrated.

In the past I've ordered new belts from various sources, with varying degrees of satisfaction.

I looked on Van Eck's web site and sure enough they had the belt I needed. But for a very reasonable price, they also had a full 5 belt set for this projector.

I've bought from Van Eck before and, as usually, the order arrived quickly, packaged in a very professional manner.

They fit perfectly.

What a really great, professional outfit Van Eck is. Thank goodness they are around for us film nuts! [Smile]

Posted by Barry Fritz (Member # 1865) on March 30, 2019, 12:14 PM:

I agree.

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 6641) on April 04, 2019, 09:33 AM:

Yes, a very efficient company. I ordered a B&H worm gear from them and it arrived 2 days later . It’s 3D printed but looks like it will do the job , it also has Allen set screws rather than spline . Haven’t got around to fitting it yet but it looks good . Jon

Posted by David C. Lucidi (Member # 4020) on April 06, 2019, 09:00 PM:

quote:
Yes, a very efficient company. I ordered a B&H worm gear from them and it arrived 2 days later . It’s 3D printed but looks like it will do the job , it also has Allen set screws rather than spline . Haven’t got around to fitting it yet but it looks good . Jon

Nothing against Van Eck, as they do provide a multitude of unique, no longer made parts for various machines. But I would think long and hard before using their B&H wormgear.

As you stated, it's 3D printed. There is no known "real world duration testing" done on this part, compared to the common dark grey worm gear replacement that has been available and installed for years inside of B&H machines (I own 2 of such replaced wormgear units myself).

I even brought this up to Van Eck, on a different forum, with absolutely no response from them. Both myself and Ken Layton (a well established B&H repair guy) expressed concerns of this 3D printed part, and (assuming it doesn't violate the rules here), here is the link to that thread, of which Van Eck was responding to only 1 day before our questions: http://www.8mmforumworldwide.com/viewtopic.php?f=13&t=1924

You'll see my concerns there from almost 4 years ago, and they are the same concerns I have now. Ken Layton also expressed even further, different concerns (and truthfully, he IS an expert on B&H machines). Unfortunately, Van Eck never bothered to respond to our questions regarding durability.

Considering the amount of difficulty involved in replacing a worm gear, I would never, ever put a part in that is under as much workload as the worm gear is....unless it was tested in MANY applications over MANY years to prove it's durability. Just way too much work to replace, only to have it fail from 3D printed materials not holding up to heat/stress, compared to the "tried and true" dark grey wormgear replacements out there.

Again, this is not a slam at all of Van Eck's overall products/company, only to this particular part. If they can prove real world testing of YEARS and hundreds (if not more) machines using their 3D printed wormgear, that would at least be a start.....

Posted by Jonathan Wood (Member # 6641) on April 08, 2019, 06:46 PM:

Hi David,
I understand what you’re saying but if everyone thinks ‘long and hard ‘ before trying the gear , then there will be no ‘real world duration testing ‘😉

I bought one just to try it out as I have several machines that need repairing . I’ve used the grey ones before with no problems . My first impression of the Van Eck gear is that it appears to be of a slightly ‘chalky’ consistency; not ideal admittedly but it does line up with the relevant sprocket gears and seems identical in its dimensions to the familiar grey one . I’ll post my results when I get around to fitting it .! Best wishes, Jon

Posted by David C. Lucidi (Member # 4020) on April 08, 2019, 07:47 PM:

quote:
I bought one just to try it out as I have several machines that need repairing . I’ve used the grey ones before with no problems . My first impression of the Van Eck gear is that it appears to be of a slightly ‘chalky’ consistency; not ideal admittedly but it does line up with the relevant sprocket gears and seems identical in its dimensions to the familiar grey one . I’ll post my results when I get around to fitting it .! Best wishes, Jon

Jon I sincerely wish you the best of luck. If you have ever changed a worm gear in a B&H, you know you are looking at a 5-6 hour, labor intensive, easy to mess up project that requires absolute EXACT tolerances and adjustments. It's one of the most involved projects to undertake of all the 16mm machine repair jobs. If you want to undertake all of that with an unknown part that costs the same as a part that is tried and true, more power to you for taking the chance to be a tester [Big Grin]

I made a mistake in my much younger years replacing a leaking waterpump on one of my race cars -- a 4 hour project as it was my first time. Everyone warned me NOT to buy a local auto parts store pump, but instead go to the dealer and get an original replacement. It was a Saturday, dealer was closed. I bought one from PepBoys with a lifetime warranty. 4 exhausting hours later, it was done. 2 days later....it was leaking. Oh sure, I was eligible for a free replacement under the lifetime warranty...but who was compensating me for my lost 4 (now 8) hours?

That's just where my feeling/opinion lies on the subject here; no ill-will intended towards you or your decision Jon. I also would be less apprehensive if Van Eck had ever commented back on my/Ken Layton's concerns 4 years ago. [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on April 08, 2019, 10:52 PM:

David, I have similar reservations as yours as to the life of 3D printed wormwheels and gears which are subjected to significant operating loads and surface contact pressure. Having said that I must say that I recently installed one of Van Ecks 3D printed wormwheels in my Eumig 926GL stereo super 8 projector, and so far it seems to be working fine, albeit perhaps a little noisier than the Eumig OEM injection molded plastic gear which disintegrated a few weeks ago after about 38 years. Only time will tell how good, or bad, these 3D printed gears are, and I am sure that Edwin does not have the resources to run extensive life tests in real projectors. One thing that I am sure we can all agree on is that Edwin is providing an invaluable service to film collectors, in my case returning an otherwise junked projector into operational service, which would not have been possible without his product.

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=1;t=012839

Posted by David C. Lucidi (Member # 4020) on April 09, 2019, 06:07 AM:

quote:
One thing that I am sure we can all agree on is that Edwin is providing an invaluable service to film collectors, in my case returning an otherwise junked projector into operational service, which would not have been possible without his product.

Paul, I 100% agree with you regarding Van Eck's overall product line -- and have no issue with any of the other parts they offer (nor do I have any issue with them personally). They truly do offer a wide range of awesome replacement products unavailable elsewhere, as well as provide a valuable service to the community! My concerns in this thread were not meant to attack them in any way. Rather, it was about using an untested part that is time consuming to replace, vs. the one that is already available and has been working without issue for years.

With respect to the wormgear you installed, that's a whole different situation, as A.) the ones for Eumig are not otherwise available, and B.) it takes much less time/effort to replace on that model, and C). it's not under the same stress/heat/etc. as the B&H model (by mere design). In a case like that, I'd be just as inclined to try a 3D printed part -- not so much for a 6 hour repair.

However, if anyone wishes to use the B&H 3D printed wormgear, by all means do so! All I was doing was offering a weighted opinion, take it or leave it [Wink]

On a positive note Paul, glad that the wormgear for your Eumig has your projector up and running again!! [Big Grin]

Posted by Rob Young. (Member # 131) on April 09, 2019, 07:13 AM:

I think you all make very fair points.

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