quote:

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As for putting my bank account and financial portfolio on my computer or on 'secure' web sites, forget it.

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Paul, I hate to break this to you but I think all bank data including yours (if you use a conventional bank) is accessible via the internet whether or not you use the internet to access it. It's supposed to be secure but who knows.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 26, 2013, 03:40 PM:
 
If that is the case Bryan, then I think it's high time the public
started fighting back.The banks are breaching confidentiality
if they are guilty of this.
 

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Posted by Tom Photiou (Member # 130) on August 26, 2013, 03:48 PM:
 
its big brother, the film 1984 is coming true bit by bit,
 

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Posted by Bill Brandenstein (Member # 892) on August 26, 2013, 04:04 PM:
 
Invasion of privacy? Nah, we ain't got none! This is a serious problem, but I'm wondering if what you saw, Osi, was like a recent news report I viewed where it wasn't just a cell phone, but a GPS-enabled smart phone, plus posts to Facebook, Twitter, or Instagram, that allowed locations to be tracked - or stalked.

If this is a simple cell phone threat alone, unaided, that one's new to me. And even more disturbing.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 26, 2013, 05:07 PM:
 
It shows how far our society has sunk Bill, when I worked for the
local Council,on Housing Maintenance, I, along with the rest of
the crew, worked in peoples homes, on trust. I'm talking total
trust, when the tenant was leaving for work, telling us that the
payments for various insurance men or the rent was on the side table if they called. It would never have crossed our minds to sift through folks private stuff, we were workmen, but honest, and
trusted workmen. How times have changed, when peoples private affairs are there for all to see at the touch of a button.
Something that would have mean't instant dismissal for us, all
those years ago, is a money maker for Bankers etc. Times do change, but not I feel, for the better.
 

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Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on August 26, 2013, 10:40 PM:
 
Don't get too freaked out, you actually have to have physical access to their phone, you have to be able to install the software and have them not notice somehow, and it doesn't work on a non-jail-broken iphone.

So in short, you can't just track people without them knowing it by just visiting a website or without physical access to their gear, their installation passwords etc etc.
 

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 27, 2013, 02:00 AM:
 
In one way I like the idea of the "police" tracking someone through the cellphone, if there is concern for there safety or have gone missing.

Without doubt anything put out on the internet... even on this forum is available for anyone to view world wide.

I think you just have to be careful...myself the internet..Facebook has been great. I can totally "bore" folk with all kinds of stuff ....although thanks to Facebook I got back my old copy of "Flight of the Phoenix"...so it does have some uses

In my new job a cellphone is a must, and am even texting ...the very thing I would rubbish the idea, only a few years ago.

Graham.
 

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Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on August 27, 2013, 03:24 AM:
 
The police are welcome to track me any way they want... cellphone, CCTV or whatever.... and they are welcome to monitor me anytime with CCTV. They can even monitor me in my very private moments if that's what turns them on (though I think they'll be doing a lot o monitoring for no pleasurable result!).
When you have nothing to hide or be ashamed of... what harm can it do? I still sleep soundly every night.
 

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Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on August 27, 2013, 04:25 AM:
 
I feel secure in my car with my mobile phone in my top pocket. Secure, because I can call out the Roadside Rescue at a moment's notice.

I suppose my phone could also help me being located if I was in a somewhat remote place.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 06:37 AM:
 
The old argument of "I've nothing to hide", should make you think
what gives them the right Martin.
 

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Posted by Martin Jones (Member # 1163) on August 27, 2013, 08:05 AM:
 
As Maurice so rightly points out, Hugh, monitoring me,and Maurice, and you, can only ADD to our security. There's nothing wrong with "old " arguments; they've stood the test of time. It's the "new", untested, ones that we should be suspicious of !
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 08:12 AM:
 
Sorry Martin, just because they can, doesn't mean that they should.
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 27, 2013, 12:19 PM:
 
but just wait ... give it a month or two and you'll be able to install that software, unaware, through they're cell phone actually being wither in use or turned on period or even worse, through whatever cell phone plan (parent company) that the person who is to be "spied upon" is using.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 02:00 PM:
 
Osi, that function will no doubt be implemented in the manufacture of said 'phone. It conjures up visions of an employee
enjoying a game of golf, while telling his employer he's ill in bed.
There is something more sinister at work here and for whatever
reason, it isn't good.A lot of this techno is put out there with no
thought as to the repercussions, Orwell was quite right in his book,
I for one now take the stance, I give no info to any bodies, Government or otherwise.On my last Census form, I told them to refer to previous info on previous form. To hell with 'em.
 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 27, 2013, 02:12 PM:
 
Hugh, I remember in the 60s my mother left the rent money on the sideboard and the house unlocked in case the rent man called when we were out. He was a real gentleman and we had no problems.
During the war my father while stationed on the South Coast stayed at his future in laws when on leave, they never locked the house at night.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 27, 2013, 02:32 PM:
 
It's all true Robert, I worked for the local Council, on various sites
all over my home town of Whitehaven, (we kicked John Paul Jones
arse when he came to burn our ships a couple of centuries back)
The people get to know you, we've laid & lit old folks fires for them, made them cups of tea, apart from doing our job, even
watched kids while the tenant nipped out. Society has gone
rotten, no doubt through the PC laws etc, and pussy footing
Government. Sadly, those days are ended, people are viewed with suspicion, but this is helped by governments, who need an
enemy, but bring that "enemy" to live amongst us. In years gone by , it was the Russians, now it is anyone with an Eastern
accent, they were wrong then, as they are now. The people
that use mobile 'phones ought to be asking serious questions on this though, it is a serious infringement on decency, if a payiing
user is monitored in this underhand way, and thanks Osi for
making us all aware.
 

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Posted by Pete Richards (Member # 2203) on August 27, 2013, 10:44 PM:
 
No Osi, there is no way for the phone company or anyone else to install that software without you knowing it. I develop for the iphone in particular, and it just is not possible.
Also, with any devices these days it is easy enough to hack them and see what the OS etc. is up to. There are plenty of us 'grey hat' guys out there that spend our free time checking up on what the software on computers and other devices are up to, and letting the world know when anything devious is attempted.
Don't buy into the scare mongering from television journalists.

Now there are real concerns with the NSA monitoring internet activity etc. and plenty of genuine privacy concerns, but the 'phone software' isn't one of them. The NSA monitoring is in full swing and I don't like the privacy implications. I recently had to change my secure mail account, check into what lavabit has been through recently.
 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 28, 2013, 04:12 PM:
 
The only thing I know about at present in the UK is Mobile Phone Tracking, which enables police to track where a particular call was made at a particular time.

Hugh, further to what you were saying; a resident in my village was photographing motorists who were parking on grass verges and damaging them, someone thought he was photographing schoolchildren on their way to school and reported him.
 

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Posted by Hugh Thompson Scott (Member # 2922) on August 29, 2013, 11:02 PM:
 
Pete, don't kid yourself, the speed that technology now moves, they can tell when you take a leak. Robert, society has gone to
hell, the people on the housing estates where I worked, looked
on us as a back up to social service, we kept an eye on folk, sadly
that is in the past, and I myself nearing the criteria of an "old guy"
but thankfully fitter than most. I worry for the next generation,
because a lot have neither the insight or care, that was instilled
in us, coupled to the majority not being able to understand English.
 

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Posted by Michel Boulet (Member # 2771) on August 30, 2013, 10:54 AM:
 
I hate everything up to 1975...technology is our most dreadful cancer in our community known as human beings.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 30, 2013, 11:12 AM:
 
A lack of technology is filthy human beings huddled in a cave trying to stay warm without even the benefit of an animal skin because they haven't invented a spear, club or knife to get one with.

A lack of technology is a breeding ground for ignorance because there is no light to read by, no printing press to make the books, no paper to print on and no alphabet to write in.

Technology is like fire (actually making a fire is technology too, maybe the most important of all.).We can cook our neighbor a nice meal or we can use it to burn down his house. The choice is ours.

Technology is morally neutral. It's up to the basic decency of people to decide how to use it. If anything, this is the problem.
 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 30, 2013, 02:32 PM:
 
There was never a time when man knew nothing. Paleothic man knew how to fashion weapons from flint, Neolithic man raised the great stone circles in Britain and made looms to weave cloth.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 30, 2013, 03:28 PM:
 
Exactly: all technologies. No matter where and when you believe man sprung up, he started out naked and bladeless: somebody discovered these things and then improved on them.

What makes us US though is that we have the brains to figure it out, the hands to do it and the language to teach others.

How far along would we be if everybody that used fire had to invent it first?

Man shapes technology, and technology shapes man too. The guy that made the better spear ate more often and his children survived too. The people that made the better dugout canoe were able to spread out further so when the volcano blew they weren't all concentrated on that same island.

Mankind is the technological creature. If it's all bad, so are we. I'm suggesting we aren't all bad, so it isn't either.

That it is even debatable among a bunch of people with a passion for cinema using the internet as a medium is actually kind of funny!
 

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Posted by Graham Ritchie (Member # 559) on August 30, 2013, 04:04 PM:
 
Yep...those were the days...



 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 30, 2013, 05:02 PM:
 
I saw one Million Years B.C at the cinema as a kid. Steve, fire was discovered not invented.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 30, 2013, 05:43 PM:
 
True: Fire was discovered. (observed?)

The means to start one at will were invented. Probably the people that were good at it were the IT Gurus of the Stone Age.

-got the nice caves, ate the cooked food, dated the women with two eyebrows...

One of my favorite movies: Castaway, has the hero go through a lot of the earliest stages of technological development all in a few minutes on screen. What he had going for him when he developed his fire starting methods is he aready knew about oxygen and combustion. The earliest guys did whatever worked and the science gradually caught up later.
 

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Posted by Michel Boulet (Member # 2771) on August 30, 2013, 11:49 PM:
 
well Steve you're like 99% like the rest of the planet wich is dépourvue de romantisme.

a shame.
 

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Posted by Steve Klare (Member # 12) on August 31, 2013, 05:50 AM:
 
Attack the facts, not the speaker.

I'll have to admit that's a criticism I've never been slapped with before. As an engineer I guess that wouldn't come naturally to me, then again I can't say I care either.

Hey, you make a sweeping generalization and you're going to get disagreement. Life is full of exceptions.

Technology is sometimes used to bring misery to people, I never denied that. However, it also puts food on our tables, clean water in our faucets, rooves over our heads, and information at our fingertips. It allows us to get out and experience other places, people and ideas.

Life without technology is people scratching in the dirt just trying to survive. It leads to short, ignorant, desperate lives. (There is no "Romanticism" there.) When you liberate people from these burdens they can learn, they can think, they can create, they can even be happy. It's hard to be that way when you are always a snow storm away from starving to death and your children keep dying.

That's how I see technology: a possibility for the betterment of people's lives. If that's a "cancer", then I'm proud to show up at the Department of Energy every day and be a "carcinogen".

-at any rate, going out on the Internet and denouncing technology makes you a hypocrite. You should live by your principals and cast all of it away. Be an example! Careful though, it's going to be mighty cold in Montreal in a few weeks.
 

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Posted by Michel Boulet (Member # 2771) on August 31, 2013, 08:18 AM:
 
je ne parle ici de nourriture mise sur la table mais bien de la misere de ce qu'n peuple peut se faire avaler comme merde. je ne possede ni cartes de credits, ni de cellulaires. je suis ici pour partager mon amour pour le vraie et seul cinema soit: la pellicule et non les images froides du HD.

as a friend once told me: were not showings FILMS anymore but INFORMATIONS.

BY THE WAY: it will snow on the east coast as well.

calm down and make love to yourself and above all: DREAM.

SANS RANCUNES------------------Michel.
 

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Posted by Douglas Meltzer (Member # 28) on August 31, 2013, 08:51 AM:
 
Michel,

dépourvue de romantisme....Steve? No way.

I don't believe that can be said about anyone on the 8mm Forum.

Steve,

Technology....both gift and curse. No hypocrisy, just shades of grey.

Doug
 

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Posted by Osi Osgood (Member # 424) on August 31, 2013, 12:13 PM:
 
Don't knock those people from a couple thousand years ago, they weren't just sitting around in togas. They have found a couple thousand year old batteries that actually worked, (scientists claim they were used for gold plating items), but there were quite a few advances in technologies way back then.

actually, the sciences and math were far more advanced. I do believe we were even flying thousands of years before the "Wright Brothers". Remember those rock drawings in our USA that can only be seen from the air. Why do that ...

unless SOMEONE was flying.

Or perhaps, look at the mathematical accuracy of ancient pyramids that if you draw a line from one pyramid in, for in stance, Aztec remains, you will find an exact path to pyramids in ancient Egypt, and other pyramids all around the world.

We have, 9as humanity) actually lost a lot of sciences, even with all of our cell phone laptop world of today.
 

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Posted by Robert Crewdson (Member # 3790) on August 31, 2013, 02:51 PM:
 
Much of Western herbal medicine comes from the ancient Greeks (Hippocrates); Victorian Herbalists laughed at Thomas Culpeper for saying that Herbs came under planets, and you should use herbs corresponding to your star sign; when Sir Arthur Conan Doyle came back and spoke through a medium he said the same thing, and talked about the healing values of colours. No one would laugh at him.
 

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Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on August 31, 2013, 02:59 PM:
 
Doug, you understand French ! Congratulations.
 

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Posted by Michael O'Regan (Member # 938) on August 31, 2013, 03:00 PM:
 

quote:

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The old argument of "I've nothing to hide", should make you think
what gives them the right Martin.

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I have to agree with Martin. I don't really care who monitors me or why...AND I also don't care what gives them the right. None of it is important.
But, that's just me...

quote:

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Technology is morally neutral. It's up to the basic decency of people to decide how to use it.

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