|
Author
|
Topic: M-Disc: 1000 years?
|
Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler
Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016
|
posted March 19, 2017 06:32 PM
They've been out for a few years both in DVD in Blu-Ray form. I haven't seen them mentioned here before so forgive me if it's a topic that's already been discussed.
They do away with the organic dyes that tend to degrade in standard DVDs. Standard burners can't burn them because the lasers aren't powerful enough but they'll play in any player. Compatible burners can be found for under $30.
I know many of you have been scanning your films. I have given up on putting them on DVDs since the original film will likely outlast them, but the digital files take up a lot of room on my systems.
Cloud storage is getting cheaper and I imagine that's where a lot of digital memories will end up. However, someone needs to keep track of "where" in the cloud they are, maintain the accounts, etc. You can't just put them in a box and know that your kids will find them someday if they didn't know where they were being kept all along.
So might these be a good alternative? Granted, you still need something that can read them, and it's not hard to imagine that the world will have moved on from DVDs and Blu Rays in 10 to 20 years. Actually, it's started already. But readers aren't all that complicated and if it's known that lots of these are around, some enterprising people will have devices with the ability to read them and transfer them to the next technology. Just like people have developed workprinters and other devices for transferring film to digital.
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler
Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016
|
posted March 19, 2017 08:02 PM
My understanding is that mechanical hard drives aren't really archival. If they're used on a regular basis, about 20% will fail within 4 years. If they sit long enough (years), they'll quit working. Your best bet with mechanical hard drives is to spin them up every 6 months or so, - which is fine, if you remember and have the equipment to do that.
What you're doing is essentially what I'm doing now. I have most all of my pictures and movies on one computer which gets backed up to a large drive, which gets copied to a cloud service. It's a reasonable approach, - as long as somebody keeps doing it.
If I were to die today, I'd hope somebody would keep that going or something like it, but my wife is not at all technical. My kids are, but making sure the family pictures and videos are kept safe may not be foremost in their young teenage minds.
The beauty of film, and perhaps the m-discs is that they can be put away for decades with nary a thought.
Mostly what I can see using them for - along with the old films, is for keeping the annual slide show/video compilations I put together for my wife each Mother's day. I started back in 2002 with a VCD. I made two copies of each and kept one at work. But I quit doing it when I learned what a short lifespan a typical DVD has.
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted March 19, 2017 09:18 PM
Thank's for starting this topic Tom, which is timely for me as I am deep in the process of digitizing all my old 8mm and super 8mm movies, as well as a stack of video 8 and VHS home movies.
So if the M disc is really archival for 100 years I will start to use them. But I am skeptical since I have experienced disc rot on many of my purchased DVD's in as little as 5years, which of course makes the whole disc totally unplayable.
One thing here though is that yes, the cine film and cine projectors will probably long outlast the digital media and the digital media players, so you MUST keep the original films. Along with this you must also keep a projector or two, to be passed on to the next generation. Projectors are basically very simple devices, and can nearly always be easily repaired or fixed (particularl silent ones), as opposed to DVD players which are complicated devices. I can see a projector like the Bolex 18-5 or a Eumig 800 series lasting for the next 100 years if only occasionally used.
I am skeptical that DVD's and hard drives of today will be at all playable 100 years from now. The whole digital thing will have moved to a whole new level. After all, unless you have a digital 8 camera you can't even play back your digital 8mm tapes from the 1990's!
--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
|
Mathew James
Jedi Master Film Handler
Posts: 740
From: Hamilton, Ontario, Canada
Registered: Dec 2014
|
posted March 20, 2017 11:54 AM
The storage length is theoretical based on known reasons for data loss, such as oxidation and melting and such...
M Disc's, in theory, will outlast all other media because the 'secret' longevity formula they have developed, basically preventing oxidation by using a lower form of carbon(glass carbon) that cannot oxidize(in theory).
I think they would be great as ONE type of storage...but i can never get used to only using one type. Everything i archive, i try to share with family and friends in case i lose something ![[Smile]](smile.gif) The problem with cloud storage is...'what if the 'cloud' goes down'? I know what you may be thinking...NEVER.
But, hey, I can remember the time clearly when i was working in the 80's when internet suddenly 'popped'up out of nowhere and took the world over....Can it not disappear just as fast when the next big thing comes? Or more-likely, hacked in such a way as to bring it down...
Nothing lasts forever in this life...in one word 'Entrophy;
In the meantime- enjoy watching them while achieving
--------------------
--
Cheers,
Matt 📽
| IP: Logged
|
|
Tom Spielman
Master Film Handler
Posts: 339
From: Minneapolis, MN, USA
Registered: Apr 2016
|
posted March 20, 2017 01:35 PM
It actually took quite a number of years for the Internet to evolve into something that could be used by more than just computer geeks. And if it ever were to just be "gone" one day, the loss of pictures and movies would be the least of our problems.
That doesn't mean that individual cloud hosting companies couldn't suddenly cease operations so there is a risk there. However, I think it's far more likely that the caretaker of family pictures is eventually no longer able to do it and is not successful in passing the torch on to somebody else.
So I definitely agree that not relying on any one particular technology or set of copies is wise. For things that started out as film, I will definitely keep the film. M-Disc also seems to have promise so that may be part of the mix too. One set of discs at home and one somewhere else in case of fire or some other disaster. And yes, I'll keep stuff in the cloud too.
And on the plus side, it is so easy to duplicate and share now, that the pictures and movies that people care about most are very likely to survive one way or another. My brothers and I all have digital copies of my parent's and grand parent's favorite pictures and so do several of my cousins.
[ March 20, 2017, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: Tom Spielman ]
| IP: Logged
|
|
Paul Adsett
Film God
Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003
|
posted March 25, 2017 03:03 PM
I was at Best Buy yesterday and saw a 5-pack of Verbatim M discs for $12.00 so I thought I would try them out. First thing I noticed is that they look different, being a semi transparent charcoal color. I still have the box for my portable lap top DVD burner and it says 'M disc compatible' on it. I just now burned a couple of short movies to the DVD and they play back fine.
The M disc box says ' lifetime of several hundred years' and 'lifetime archival'. There is a guy on youtube who ran a test comparison burning the same movie file to a regular DVD disc and an M disc. He then soaked both of them in water for several days, froze them, and boiled them. Following this, the regular DVD would not play but the M disc did. A few days later the regular DVD had somehow returned to a playable condition but stains could be seen in the dye layer. Here is another test:
http://www.zdnet.com/article/torture-testing-the-1000-year-dvd/
And here is an article from PC World magazine:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/2933478/storage/m-disc-opt ical-media-reviewed-your-data-good-for-a-thousand-years.html
The cost of the M disc is about $2.50 each, twice that of a regular DVD disc. But probably well worth using for any archival material.
--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj
| IP: Logged
|
|
|
|
|
UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!
Printer-friendly view of this topic
