8mm Forum: Copyright ... Does it bother you ?

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Topic: Copyright ... Does it bother you ?

David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted May 31, 2018 04:40 AM

We all know to well about what copyright notices are but do they really concern you and do you strictly adhere to them at all times ?

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted May 31, 2018 12:25 PM

Hmm...of course I reckon we've all made a copy of something we shouldn't have, but as long as it isn't for monetary gain or public exhibition.

But then again, there are certain "titles" out there that don't really have official, erm…

Within reason, I think if we respect others work artistically and financially...

On second thoughts, potential minefield.

Don't copy or show anything that isn't yours.
[Big Grin]

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted May 31, 2018 02:46 PM

I remember one letter in a movie magazine saying about Super 8 prints "All 'imports' are pirate copies". But the authors' response to criticism (sending a reviewer who objected a black plastic bag to put himself int the rubbish IIRC) rather diluted the effect.

I had no qualms about buying imported prints from UK dealers.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted May 31, 2018 05:56 PM

" Imported " Prints on the whole really had not travelled very far if at all.

Best Mark.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 31, 2018 06:36 PM

A legal copy can be classified pirate if it is sold in the country not intended.

All legal CD/Film sold in Indonesia are clearly stated "not authorized to be sold outside Indonesia".

The reason because the copyright holders give lower rate for Indonesians due to low economy status.

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Winbert

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Rob Young.
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1633
From: Cheshire, U.K.
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 01, 2018 06:58 AM

Those "imports" certainly provided us with some great titles and prints!

I'm not condoning copyright breach, but there's a big difference between making some money from a few 8mm prints which collectors want and, say, mass selling pirate DVDs to fund criminal activity.

Although that didn't stop some "collectors" from dobbing in certain dealers back in the day.

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Maurizio Di Cintio
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 977
From: Ortona, Italy
Registered: Jan 2004

posted June 01, 2018 01:20 PM

I have bought some DVD released on the USA market (fortunately my player can play them) on occasion, i.e. when there is no equivalent release on the Italian market... Otherwise I would have gone for a local release.... Am I an outlaw???

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Maurizio

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 01, 2018 03:39 PM

Does it not go further than that? If you acquire a film made by an amateur film maker and desire to sell it on, do you not require the permission of the maker to do so, or is the maker entitled to a royalty? I do not know the answer but I would guess that there might be legal consequences.

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 01, 2018 10:57 PM

quote:
I have bought some DVD released on the USA market

I found any DVD/CD made in USA (and also EU) do not have a statement like what I found in Indonesia, so I guess that is not an illegal act.

But that is only my guess.

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Winbert

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 02, 2018 02:12 AM

Terry, unlike Professional films, an amateur film has, in general no copyrights. The only "trouble" you could get in if you're very unlucky would be regarding the soundtrack using copyrighted music if you show the film in public. But with all what you can see on the Net nowadays it would be surprising that someone would care for that.

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Dominique

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 02, 2018 03:56 AM

There would still be rights attached to an amateur film. If you took a photograph, it couldn't be reproduced in a magazine without your permission. As the creator the rights belong to you. You can find out more in 'The Writers and Artists Yearbook', available at reference libraries.

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted June 02, 2018 04:34 AM

On a personal level i have always turned a blind eye to copyright restrictions.

Most of these copyright rights stuff is usually founded in order to ensure that greedy and profit driven individuals and big companies are not somehow granted even more financial gains in the form of royalties.

In the cinema industry we were told to keep a watchful eye on any individuals who may be making pirate copies of the latest feature films in the cinema. We could get a reward if we grassed on them and they were caught in the act.

I never bothered to report them as i was much to busy doing my proper job. [Big Grin]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 02, 2018 05:14 AM

Thanks for the info, Robert. I wonder if it applies to all kind of art. There is a very famous children lullaby in France that was created by a (still alive) former teacher. But she never got one cent of royalties since she didn't register the song. I must admitt I never checked the Belgian or the french legislation about amateur film since I have always been told it was free of any rights. Maybe there is also a protection like in the UK.

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Dominique

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 02, 2018 06:39 AM

In the UK, the copyright laws, last longer than the other European countries; it is currently , the life of the creator, plus, up to 70 years after their death. I did read recently of plans to increase this to 90 years. Before the BBC could broadcast the whole of Tony Hancock's TV shows some years back, they had to contact all the living actors or their next of kin for permission. Some UK members may remember that Martin Shaw put the block on 'The Professionals' being broadcast for many years because he wasn't happy with his early performances.
Copyright laws are being broken all the time; book collecting magazines that showed the dustjackets of books by Ian Fleming, Agatha Christie and others would be in breach of copyright, unless they contacted the artist who designed the dustjacket or their next of kin. If sites, such as Sockshare.net, allow people to upload features in HD, then I don't see why I shouldn't download one to keep.

There is some film piracy coming out of Russia. My wife wanted to see Colin Firth in 'The King's Speech', but we were unable to make it, and while it was being shown at the local cinema, we watched it on a Russian site, with English language. Then I bought, what I thought was a legitimate release of the Tom Cruise film 'Valkyrie, this was only 2 weeks after seeing it on screen. It turned out to have been filmed in the cinema, as I saw people going to their seats in the front row.'

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Terry Sills
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1423
From: Weymouth,Dorset,England
Registered: Oct 2012

posted June 02, 2018 08:31 AM

Robert
Yes that was my understanding, so if someone were to make a copy/ DVD of an amateur film that might be a breach of copyright? Seems absurd but it could be.

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Robert Crewdson
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1031
From: UK
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 02, 2018 09:25 AM

Yes, it would be Terry. The original film might be old, the original maker might be dead; if there are any kin, they probably wouldn't know that the film had been copied or posted. I have a few amateur 16mm films from 1928 to circa 1940; I only know the name of one of the film makers, a Vicar from Liverpool, shot some footage in 1935; whether he left any children I don't know. As most of this comes from unknown sources it would be hard for anyone to prove copyright.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted June 02, 2018 11:33 AM

As a person who has released a super 8 release in the past and would like, if possible, to do it again, yes, most definitely, whether I could get away with or not, (the studios have they're hands full just trying to keep digital copuies from being released on the internet before they ever get released on DVD or bluray!!) ...

It's just staying within existing copyright laws. For instance, when I released, "Saturday morning Madness" i read up ahead of time on the commercials i wanted to release and while, of course, the characters were all copyrighted characters, the individual commercials had fallen into public domain, so techincally, I could release them, but if someone was to come and ask for monies for the actual characters "pictured" on the super 8 film, then they could have a valid case.

The same idea works for trailers of films and I honestly do not think that the studioes have enough time to go after people who release trailers for new movies these days on super 8.

I doubt that there are many full feature films that have went out of copyright these days tht would actually be worth releasing on super 8 due to the cost. [Smile]

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"All these moments will be lost in time, just like ... tears, in the rain. "

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David Hardy
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 955
From: Johnshaven Village , Montrose, Scotland
Registered: Jan 2015

posted June 02, 2018 02:29 PM

Yes Osi most of those trailers released on 8mm and Super 8mm or even 16mm were probably and highly likely sourced from 35mm cinema release prints trailers.

No one here the UK gave a damn about what happened with them after the movie they were promoting was released. Copyright or not ! [Smile]

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" My equipment's more important than your rats. "

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Brian Fretwell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1785
From: London, UK
Registered: Jun 2014

posted June 03, 2018 04:29 AM

One company (Sabucat http://www.sabucat.com/, now closed for this but trailers still here https://archive.org/details/sabucat_trailers) found that many studios did not bother to copyright trailers in the US before a certain date and were offering them for sale for commercial use as clips from them would not be under copyright as they would be if the clip was from a feature print. Show how strange copyright law can be.

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted June 03, 2018 06:44 AM

Brian, neither of the links are operative.

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Dave

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 03, 2018 05:13 PM

quote:
neither of the links are operative.

Dave, I found there were comma [...,...] and parentheses [...)...] are included in the original link making the link is inoperative.

So it should be:

http://www.sabucat.com/

https://archive.org/details/sabucat_trailers

ps: but the http://www.sabucat.com/ is indeed a dead link now.

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Winbert

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Dave Groves
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 508
From: Southend on Sea, Essex, UK
Registered: Feb 2015

posted June 04, 2018 03:40 AM

Thanks Winbert. After I'd posted I typed Sabucat movie trailers and the items came up. Sometimes a little thought before posting can solve problems!!!

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Dave

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Gregory Oliver
Junior
Posts: 28
From: Mansfield, TX, USA
Registered: Feb 2017

posted June 04, 2018 03:14 PM

I remember buying copies of LPs in Taiwan in the 1960s for $.25 on colored vinyl and I imagine that they're still around somewhere. That's all you could get back then.
I can live with it.

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Dominique De Bast
Film God

Posts: 4486
From: Brussels, Belgium
Registered: Jun 2013

posted June 04, 2018 05:00 PM

Seen in the news, today. Belgian public television asks money to those who install large tv screen for people to watch football matches. 1 or 1.5 euro per people watching. Some local authorities refuse to pay stating it's a public service but the tv company says they have the rights for the football brodacasting so they can ask money. Restaurant and pubs are however not asked to pay anything for switching the tv set on during the matches. To follow...

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Dominique

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