8mm Forum: Son Sound

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Topic: Son Sound

Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 01, 2007 08:23 PM

The sound from my Pathescope Son sounds as if people are talking underwater! [Roll Eyes]

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Trevor

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 03, 2007 04:09 AM

Could be caused by flutter.

On my machine which is now stripped down I found that the capstan/flywheel didn't turn freely due to a built up of muck in the bearing. Check that its running free with out a gritty feeling as you turn the capstan or flywheel.

Kev.

[ July 05, 2007, 04:58 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 03, 2007 06:55 AM

Thanks Kev,will do. [Smile]

Trev

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Trevor

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted July 05, 2007 10:46 AM

Trev
Make sure the flywheel is turning free. Sometimes when folk have the old Sons to bits wires get caught when putting back together.
Best

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Martyn Stevens
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Leighton Buzzard, UK
Registered: Jul 2007

posted July 07, 2007 07:54 AM

Hi Trevor, how you keeping these days? The main reason for the poor sound is that you are using a Son. This is something I try to discourage as much as possible. You really are much better off with a Vox or Super Vox converted to QI lighting, with a photodiode and a separate amp. I am currently using my Super Vox wot I have had since the tender age of nealy forty years ago to test run various films I am checking, with an elderly diode, thru a small pre-amp and then into a Heurtier valve projector amp and out thru a big B&H speaker. And the sound, track permitting, is great. And as someone has been saying on one of the 8mm topics re projector noise coming thru on mag tracks, it IS nice to have the projector next to you and not in a separate booth, if only for the nostalgia.
There are many reasons why sound might be bad, one of which is using an amp or speaker not designed for film - this can give a very muddy result. Also see The Lost Chord in the 9.5 section on my website, whcih is about attempts to get good sound out of 9.5 and avoids me repeating myself too much here.

Martyn

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Trevor Adams
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 763
From: Auckland,New Zealand
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 08, 2007 05:22 AM

Thanks Marty( [Wink]

).I shall check out your great site.I know how much you love the Son.........Maybe it is a miracle I'm getting sound at all?Trev

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Trevor

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 08, 2007 05:45 PM

I beg the question...am I wasting my time renovating the one I have here?

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Alex Fox
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 179
From: Vineland Ontario Canada
Registered: Jul 2003

posted July 09, 2007 10:17 AM

Hi Kevin ,The first question I would ask myself is ,DO I ENJOY WORKING ON PROJECTORS if the ansewer is YES then go for it. I would not be put of buy what I have been reading in past posts. My m/c has good sound and if it had better speed control it would be a o.k. projector. Four 4BA screws and 4 rubber grommets should fix your motor mount problem which you should be able to get. Hope this is of some help. Regards Alex

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 09, 2007 06:18 PM

Hi Alex, Thanks for that info. I did wonder what size screws those were.

I have now got a fix for those mounting bits. I bought some rubber tap washers and after cleaning all the old rubber stuff off the old mounting bushes have now superglued the washers in place. I think this is going to work well.

I have also removed and cleaned the flywheel/capstan bearing and that now runs really free without and any stiffness which it had originally.

Next its sort the wiring time as well as giving it a respray with Black Hamerite Enamel paint.

I must put some pics up here just to show this machine in its now component bits as its completely stripped down. Jut hope I can remember where it all goes when I get round to reassembly.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Martyn Stevens
Film Handler

Posts: 36
From: Leighton Buzzard, UK
Registered: Jul 2007

posted July 10, 2007 11:09 AM

Kevin,
I agree entirely with Alex - messing about with projectors is fun. The Son would be much improved by a tachograph controlled motor stolen from eg a worm-dead B&H. A word of warning re Hammerite generally - I have used it to repaint spools, but it seems to be very susceptible to being dissolved by carbon tetrachloride and various film treatment fluids. But I don't know of any other paint thick enough to do as good a job.

Martyn

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 10, 2007 05:37 PM

Thanks for the warning Martyn. I'll certainly keep an eye out for that.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted July 10, 2007 07:04 PM

Trev says " The sound from my Pathescope Son sounds like people are talking underwater".
Trev, quit running the Pathescope while your in the Jacuzzi! [Big Grin]

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Lee Mannering
Film God

Posts: 3216
From: The Projection Box
Registered: Nov 2006

posted July 11, 2007 12:07 PM

You can see my fully converted Son running a sound film on the DVD we produced a couple of years ago in the film "The Cinema in Miniature" (DVD called This is Cinema) The sound is very good indeed and I have been happy with it ever since.

A Son which has had the hours put into doing it all up will do fine. Its the ones which are run without any work done to them which do the harm.

I had a letter of a guy some time ago who could not see how the sound was so good from my Son, having just seen the DVD. I dragged him back here after a chance meeting and gave him a demo of the Son showing a Betty Boop cartoon. He left full of Pathe wonder....

At the end of the day 9.5 is now an antique gauge so time and effort plus much know how will be needed to get the best from it I think you may well find.

Happy 9.5 everyone...

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