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Topic: Halogen or LED

Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 12, 2014 02:49 AM

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Hi,

About to convert the bulb in my Ace to a modern version. Looking at a 12v transformer but cannot decide on LED or Halogen. I keep thinking LED is a lot cooler so there is no danger of films being burnt.
Anyone any ideas on the best, and what wattage? Would a 10w LED bulb be bright enough?

Thanks

Andy

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted April 12, 2014 02:53 AM

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No. Halogen is the best option.

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 12, 2014 03:09 AM

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Is the heat generated by halogen not a problem?

Thanks

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Martin Jones
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1269
From: Thetford , Norfolk,England
Registered: May 2008

posted April 12, 2014 06:00 AM

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If you are set on doing a conversion you will have to consider that.... and address it if necessary, perhaps with a fan or heat filter, or both. But LEDs will not be bright enough. Or you could stick with the standard lighting.
After all, it is a basic "toy" projector... no matter how iconic it may be.

--------------------
Retired TV Service Engineer
Ongoing interest in Telecine....

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Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 12, 2014 07:24 AM

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Thanks Martin.

Will convert it to Halogen. I will look at installing a fan if the heat is too high.

Many thanks

Andy

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 12, 2014 01:20 PM

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Andrew, I would recommend going to a 10 watt Halogen bulb, which works fine in the ACE with no additional cooling or heat filter. The 10 watt Halogen gives a brighter and whiter picture than the Pathescope OEM lamps.
Going to 20 watts may melt the plastic condenser lens mount which is located really close to the bulb. And a 20 watt Halogen lamp presents the possible danger of blistering the film if you are not cranking the projector. I have found that the 10 watt halogen will not damage the film even on still pictures.
I disagree with Martin a little bit in reference to the Ace as a "toy "projector. True the Ace is a very basic design film projector, but it is very well engineered (for the most part!) and is a really solidly constructed machine. After all they are still running after 75 years! Martin is correct of course to call the Ace "iconic". I know of no other projector that introduced so many people to the joy of film projection in the home.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
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Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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David Ollerearnshaw
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1373
From: Penistone Sheffield UK
Registered: Oct 2012

posted April 12, 2014 01:36 PM

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This got me doing a little research on LED they are supposed to be brighter, like 6w LED 30w Halogen. But a couple of bits the info I looked at was a little scary, like they can cause blindness due to the blue spectrum. Also one about them causing fading on old master pieces.

I have seen a 110w for a flood light though and I though about this as a projector lamp.

--------------------
I love the smell of film in the morning.

http://www.thereelimage.co.uk/

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Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 12, 2014 01:56 PM

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Paul,

Now convinced I am going to change to a 10w halogen. You have put my mind at rest about the heat issue. Will order the stuff of an auction site tonight.

David, now you have me scared of LED's lol

Thanks everyone

Andy

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Paul Adsett
Film God

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From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 12, 2014 03:32 PM

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Maybe the time will come when LED'S will be bright enough to retrofit into our home movie projectors, but they are not there yet.
One or two home digital projectors now have LED lighting, but that is a whole different story.
Good luck with your Ace mod Andy.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 12, 2014 05:55 PM

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Thanks Paul.

Will post a few pics when I get round to do it.

Andy

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 12, 2014 07:40 PM

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Andy, you may want to take a look at this thread which describes how I did the Halogen conversion on my Ace:

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000191

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted April 18, 2014 02:36 PM

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Hi Andrew, I would confirm that the best lamp conversion for your ACE is the 12volt 10 watt halogen and it will be brighter that the original and give off less heat. The ACE in its Mark2 and 3 models with the little tubular lamps were not suitable for showing still frames. I also disagree about it being a "toy", iconic, most certainly. However, because it was sprocketless many of the film libraries would only rent films for use on sprocket fed machines because many of the young enthusiasts did treat it as a toy and damaged films through sheer ignorance and carelessness, did did many adults , even with sprocket fed machines. Two little points which are important when using the ACE. 1. Make sure the spring belt to the take up reel is not too tight and do not use reels with smaller core diameter that the Pathescope ones. 2.Put a little plastic sleeve on the brake arm of the feed reel as the metal can scratch the film if it does come into contact with it. Good luck with the conversion, Ken Finch.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 18, 2014 10:02 PM

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Ken, when I was a youngster in the UK, I found the best thing to put on the brake arm was one of those pieces of valve tubing used for bicyle tire valves. Do they still make those things?

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Andrew Long
Film Handler

Posts: 42
From: Kirby Cross, Essex
Registered: Jul 2010

posted April 19, 2014 12:41 AM

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Thanks for the advice everyone. Put an order in for a halogen converter etc. Will convert it the same way as in your link Paul.

Will also put some plastic over the brake arm to prevent scratching.

Andy

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Ken Finch
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 543
From: Herne Bay, Kent. U.K.
Registered: Oct 2011

posted April 19, 2014 12:44 PM

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Hi Paul, Yes, many of us used to use bike valve rubbers, I'm sure they are still available, but I thought plastic tubing is less likely to pick up dirt and is smoother. It wasn't available when I was a youngster! Ken Finch.

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