8mm Forum: A New LED Bulb for My Pathe Baby

This is topic A New LED Bulb for My Pathe Baby in forum 9.5mm Forum at 8mm Forum.

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Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 04, 2016, 10:54 PM:

I had pretty much given up finding a suitable LED alternative for the lamp in my Pathe Baby. The 10W Halogen was working fine...wished it was a bit brighter...but didn't want to risk burning the film. Well a couple weeks ago I stumbled upon this 6W dimmible LED on Ebay. The shape...the size... the G4 base...heat sync... and the light output looked very encouraging. I just received the bulb today and had to do a quick test.

I added some pics comparing the Halogen vs. the LED image. Although I was hoping it would be even brighter, it's definitely as bright as the 10w Halogen. I haven't found one of this design with a higher wattage than 6 yet...but keeping my eyes out.

See what you think.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 05, 2016, 01:32 AM:

That's very encouraging Janice. Like you I have Baby which I converted to Halogen, but I have to keep nonstop cranking to avoid burning film. I'm sure it's just a matter of time before suitable LED's become available for many of our projectors.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 05, 2016, 02:35 AM:

So far this is the best one I have found Terry. With this bulb you can stop turning and there is absolutely no heat. No more worries about burning frames. It only cost $2.90 USD with free shipping from China. Can't beat that [Smile]

Here are some more screen captures using this bulb.
http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000172;p=7#000154

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 05, 2016, 03:08 AM:

Fantastic Janice! Can you give a link for the LED?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 05, 2016, 10:09 AM:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/141928424509?_trksid=p2057872.m2749.l2649&var=441062324573&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

[ May 05, 2016, 11:58 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 05, 2016, 10:24 AM:

The price is high but at least the shipping is free [Big Grin]

Dimmable G4 LED 12V AC/DC COB Light 3W 6W High Quality LED G4 COB Lamp Bulb

g4 led 12v/wholesale price/G4 led bulb/3 year warranty
147,05 EUR
Achat immédiat
Livraison gratuite

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 05, 2016, 10:33 AM:

I thought the price was really cheap Dominique. And considering how long a life these bulbs have it's fractions of a penny per use. if you're satisfied with the quality of the image then I think it's a real bargain.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 05, 2016, 10:36 AM:

Janice, your price (2.90 dollars) is cheap but the one that appears on EBay France : 147.05 euros is exagerate (probably a mistake). [Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 05, 2016, 05:20 PM:

I certainly hope that's a typo Dominique [Smile]

You probably could pick up a projector for that price.

If anybody else buys one of these bulbs...I'd really be interested in any feeback.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 05, 2016, 05:54 PM:

Thank you, Janice, I could buy one at the "normal" price. They say it will be delivery the last week in May or the first in June. I will check it on my Pathé Coq d'Or. I hope it will work as well as on your Pathé Baby (at that price, I'm not taking any risk anyway). It could be nice if they could make higher wattage. I noticed on your two pictures a big difference of "colour" (both are taken from a black and white film but the "led" one looks really black and white while the "halogen" one looks sepia, brwonish). Does that reflects the result you obtain on the screen or is it just a different camera setting or reaction when you took the pictures ?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 05, 2016, 06:59 PM:

The halogen bulb gives off a definite sepia tone. The photo is a bit more saturated. The LED bulb comes in two types...a warm light and the cool white. The warmer colored LED is probably closer to the look of the halogen. It's what you prefer.

I'm anxious to hear if it worked for you Dominique [Smile]

Posted by Paul Adsett (Member # 25) on May 05, 2016, 07:01 PM:

Another advantage of the LED is of course that you can no longer fry an egg on the lamphouse! [Big Grin]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 05, 2016, 07:28 PM:

I choosed the cool white, I like real black and white. I cannot see any reference on the halogen that is in my projector, it may be a 20 watts as there is a little fan. So a 6 watts led would, in this case, give a lesser bright picture but I like the idea that it limits the risks for the films. The only way to know if it is satisfaying is to try anyway :-)

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 06, 2016, 01:24 AM:

I've just ordered G4 7watt led which hopefully is a little brighter and also gone for cool white. Will be interesting to see how it performs. Coming from China so will probably take a week or so.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 06, 2016, 02:10 AM:

Terry be careful....is the lamp you bought the same design just aa higher wattage as the one I'm suggesting with a single chip. If not...my guess is that it won't work and maybe not be as bright as the 6W. Multi-chip lights will not focus the light through the condenser lens properly so the image will actually be darker. I've tried several LEDS in the past and this style is the only one that has actually projected an acceptable amount of light. However this bulb is not as efficient as it could be. This is evident in that a 6W LED should be equivalent to a 40W halogen...and as you can see it's only about equal in brightness to the 10W halogen. This is because all the light is not projecting through the Pathe Baby condenser lens.All LEDs are not equal.

[ May 06, 2016, 11:27 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 06, 2016, 11:44 AM:

Yes thanks Janice. I did choose a G4 which has a picture of a single chip, so I'm hoping that's what I get. Only £2.38 and free postage, so won't break the bank and if it's any good I will post a link. I know the multi LED lamps are not suitable for our uses but it seems that these single chip lamps are coming on in leaps and bounds.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 06, 2016, 02:07 PM:

I was really hoping Terry you would try the 6W bulb first to get your feedback. Perhaps you could send a link to the bulb you did buy. I'm thinking of trying the 3W also...it's possible it might focus the light beam better through the condenser than the higher wattage.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on May 06, 2016, 05:09 PM:

Janice, I'm a "fan" of tests with the LED on my Pathescope Ace! [Smile]

Not to repeat myself I post the thread where I told about my experiments [Smile]

http://8mmforum.film-tech.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=9;t=000070
I confirm that the LED can make a greater contribution with light, but not always, and especially I noticed that depends on the type of the LEDs and the projector where it is mounted, on someone's better a type, on other other...
For example, on my Pathescope Ac,e this type: http://www.silamp.it/images/20131109131918-20130830113337-g4-led-silamp.jpg
gave poor results, while with the model that you indicated you and with this: http://www.milano.de/files/led_12v_g4_1.jpg
I had good improvements. But with the second model of led I have the edges of the picture may be less enlightened than the center!
I also confirm that, apart from photo with camera, the led COLD WHITE gives a less "brownish" effect and greater "ice" effect light!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 06, 2016, 08:15 PM:

Thanks Luigi for your comments. All input is important. I think there has been lots of progress in the use of LEDs for these 9.5 projectors. I feel the 6 volt LED I bought will at this point easily replace my 10W halogen. I'm also confident as time and more testing moves forward a solution for brightening the image will also be achieved.

[ May 07, 2016, 10:22 AM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on May 07, 2016, 04:49 AM:

You're right!
I think also the important thing is just to keep the same voltage as the old lamp.
For Watts, I have relied the tables online tahta reporting equivalent LED light comparison with halogen or other older technologies.

Keep us updated on your other experiments, it is a subject that interests! [Smile]

My Ace, in basic, is not very bright as a projector, I would like a greater light (without melting anything, of course! [Big Grin]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 21, 2016, 04:21 AM:

Janice
I just received the 7w LED lamp and tried it first in a Muray editor to compare it with the 20w halogen fitted. A little disappointed I have to say. Not as bright and gives a lilac coloured hue as opposed to the White/yellowish colour of the halogen image. Maybe because the editor has no reflector and I have yet to try it in my Baby. I don't know whether yours is the same but this single chip seems to be made up of several tiny LED's only perceptible when it is lit. Here is the link for the one I purchased
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/201468588655?_trksid=p2060353.m2749.l2649&var=500648157632&ssPageName=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 21, 2016, 09:48 AM:

Hi Terry thanks for the feedback. Sorry to hear the lamp wasn't what you expected. I suggest you try the one I purchased to compare. I have been pretty satisfied with it so far. The color is a nice black and white as I show in my screenshots. If you like the color to be a little more yellow then choose the other color. I too wish it was a little brighter however it's equal to the 10 watt bulb and cool so at this point it's a decent replacement.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 22, 2016, 03:16 PM:

Janice
I suppose the problem is that I am comparing the led to a 20w halogen and it just not come close. Having said that I have tried it in my Baby and it does work better than in the editor. Probably because the Baby has a reflector built into the lamp house. Still the 'lilac' hue but quite an acceptable image and no fear of burning a still image.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 22, 2016, 08:28 PM:

Well...yes Terry...I was only comparing it to the 10W and only in the Baby. Until they design a G4 LED with a small thin filament-type bulb that can use the built-in reflector I don't think a much brighter image can be expected. I've seen a LED filament-type bulb used for chandeliers...so they are getting close [Smile]

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on May 23, 2016, 01:40 AM:

That's right. We have to remember that LED lighting is still in its infancy and great advances have been made to date. Who knows what the future will bring. Exciting times for us trying to overcome the problems associated with old inefficient and rare lamps. Thanks for bringing this led to our attention. Keep up the good work [Smile]

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 26, 2016, 06:38 AM:

I got my bulb yesterday. The light in my Coq projector is good. The "trouble" I found was that the replaced bulb holder had been enarged to accept the halogene bulb. So a new bulb holder should work but as I didn't make the transformation, I will see if I make the replacement or not.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on May 26, 2016, 01:30 PM:

Dominique I'm not familiar with the Coq projector...but if it uses the same bulb...reflector...and condenser lens system as the Baby then with the proper bulb holder theoretically it should work. Let us know how it turns out [Smile]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on May 26, 2016, 06:38 PM:

Dom, I'm curious to see the results with the Coq!

Someone more experienced than me in the electric field could help me with this doubt? According to the conversion tables (example: http://www.ledlamp.it/comparazione.html) the brightness of halogen 20 watt 12 volt, like that of my Ace Pathescope, corresponds to LED 3w 4w always at 12v. But we are talking about watts, not volts... if I take a higher wattage, but always 12v, I risk of merging all? For example, Led 10w 12v? Or even higher?

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 31, 2016, 09:19 AM:

I'm not sure my last message was clear so I took a picture of the bulb holder : one of the two holes has been enlarged (I think so anyway, maybe it is originally like that ?.

The halogene bulb holds firmly but the led one doesn't as well.

It fits and stays up but not strongly. So what I need to do is trying when the projector is in action with a film to see 1) if the light goes correctly 100 % through the system 2) if the trépidations of the projector makes the bulb move. That is to be tested at night so it will not be for now.

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on May 31, 2016, 11:44 AM:

Dominique
If your new lamp is slightly loose in the lamp-holder it might be possible to make the pins fit more tight by slightly enlarging the pins with a very small dribble of solder on them.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on May 31, 2016, 04:09 PM:

Thanks for the advise, Maurice. I may try that following the result of my tests.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on June 01, 2016, 10:06 AM:

Dom, how many watts is your new LED and how was the bulb you had before?

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 01, 2016, 11:31 AM:

Luigi, Dom bought the same LED I recommended above (12V 6W). Comparing watts (LED vs Halogen) is not a good indicator of brightness when used in the Pathe Baby projector. As I stated above this LED bulb is listed as 6 watts equal in brightness to a 40 watt halogen. However when used in the Pathe Baby the brightness projected appeared only equal to the 10W halogen. It gets down to the design of the bulb and how much light it can squeeze through the small condenser lens.

Posted by Terry Sills (Member # 3309) on June 01, 2016, 11:45 AM:

Dom
Easier than trying to dribble solder onto the pins of the bulb, just gently spread the pins to give a better fit. I've done this successfully quite a few times.

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 01, 2016, 01:08 PM:

Thank you, Terry. It appears that the bulb is not hold firmly enough so I will have to fix that. I will try both solutions. Luigi, I don't know the wattage of the halogene lamp as it is not written on it and the conversion had not been made by me. There is a little fan in the projector so I guess it is at least 20 watts. The led bulb however doesn't seem less bright but this may look different with a film (and that's what matters, right ?). I'll try to go on with that this week but I have many films to respool, clean, Watch and so on :-)

Posted by Dominique De Bast (Member # 3798) on June 21, 2016, 06:15 PM:

I followed Maurice's suggestion and it worked ! This led bulb gives a real black and white picture (and not yellowish), so I found it very nice for this reason. I could not have an enough bright picture to project on my screen at the same distance I put my other projectors but when I turned my Pathé Coq and screened on the (white) wall closer, the picture was of course smaller but good. The nice thing with the bulb is that it has the right size to send the light to the lens. It is pleasure to project without fearing a burn frame. I hope one day they make the same model but more powerful. Don't hesitate to try this bulb !

Posted by Maurice Leakey (Member # 916) on June 22, 2016, 02:34 AM:

Well done, Dominique. I always try to help.

Posted by Andrew Woodcock (Member # 3260) on June 22, 2016, 03:18 AM:

You do indeed Maurice, to your absolute credit. [Wink]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on June 22, 2016, 12:20 PM:

Great feedback Dominique! I'm so glad you gave this bulb a try and had some success. This shows great progress in the development of the LED and its use in projectors. I have no doubt that a brighter lamp will be achieved in the future.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on July 15, 2016, 05:19 PM:

Finally I bought the LED of this form, triangular:
http://g02.a.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1rX3NKpXXXXb2XpXXq6xXFXXXf/Dimmable-G4-LED-Lamp-6W-COB-LED-Bulb-DC-AC-12V-LED-G4-COB-Light-360.jpg

Before I had this form on my Pathescope Ace:
http://i.ebayimg.com/00/s/ODAwWDgwMA==/z/11IAAOSwGXtXg2jT/$_57.JPG?set_id=880000500F

I must say that this time I am unhappy, yhe light is more concentrated on screen space, but there is really too bluish effect, and the when the bulb is more hot bulish effect more increases! Maybe because I chose "cold white" instead of" "warm white"? I don't think, my other type of LED was equally warm white; say that much depends on the case...
With the other LED, type in the second in link, I had a good effect b/w, a nicer alternative at typical sepia effect of halogen; a nice result like Janice.

Well, I'll try again with triangular shape LED, but I'll take a warm white type. [Smile]

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 15, 2016, 06:00 PM:

Luigi you might see if you can order the exact bulb that Dom and I purchased.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on July 19, 2016, 05:36 AM:

Good advice, Janice, I buy it at the shop that you and Dom posted by eBay link.

I was wondering if I can take, if necessary, also 6w version, although according to the conversion table corresponding to 40W of halogen standard, beyond the 20W of halogen bulb I usually do. There will be risks?

For this doubt I always bought the 3W, which corresponds precisely to 20w halogen standard.

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 19, 2016, 09:18 AM:

Yes Luigi you will need at least the 6 watt LED. If you read my results above you will see that the 6 watt doesn't give out any more brightness then a 10 watt halogen bulb. Dom and I both bought the 6 watt bulb and since there is no heat it's not a problem to go with the higher wattage. As long as it's 12 volts it's not a problem.

I was going to try the 3 watt version...but since you have already tested it with unfavorable results...I think I'll stay with the 6W for now.

[ July 19, 2016, 12:54 PM: Message edited by: Janice Glesser ]

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on July 19, 2016, 06:32 PM:

You're right, Janice, if you are getting 12 volts there should be no problems, it's true.
I saw that, in terms of brightness, there is not much difference between 10w halogen and 6W led, and I noticed that even with my 20W halogen of my Ace and 3W led is not much difference. Change only the coloring, as we have noted.

I think that however the bluish effect also depends by the projector, the lens and the quality of the LED light bulb, which perhaps are not always equal, even if they have the same appearance.

I bought the new 6W bulb, it will take a bit 'from China to Italy, but will let you know! [Smile]

An info: you and Dom bought cold white or warm white type?

Thanks!

Posted by Janice Glesser (Member # 2758) on July 19, 2016, 07:31 PM:

Cool White.

Posted by Luigi Castellitto (Member # 3759) on July 20, 2016, 01:53 PM:

Thanks! [Smile]

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