8mm Forum: Splicing Super 8

»	8mm Forum » 8mm Forum » Splicing Super 8 (Page 2)

UBBFriend: Email this page to someone!

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Author

Topic: Splicing Super 8

David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

posted May 13, 2005 03:51 AM

Check this out!

Jan, take note!!!

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=11722&item=7515653 673&rd=1&ssPageName=WDVW

It'll be interesting to see how much it realises.

Dave.

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

| IP: Logged

Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 13, 2005 05:28 AM

Hello Dave
The price this Ebay listed CIR splicer attains will give some idea of the current value as long as the item gets 'seen' by it's potential audience - the seller would have been better advised to list this item in the 8mm film section as well from my experience. They have got a bit excited with the description in two areas as well:
1. The De-Luxe model does not have a matrix suitable for shrunken film - this is only available on the higher priced heavy duty models where the matrix and join angle is fine adjustable by a small knurled knob that shifts the left side matrix sprockets a little to allow the film join edges to match better. This feature really is more relevant to the larger gauges; if a Super 8 film is too mis-shapen / shrunk to be spliced it is very unlikely it will make it though a projector anyway. Some collectors adjust their splicer matrix to provide a slight overlap of the film in preference to a flat join.
2. The splicing tape rolls are 10 metres long; it seems they have divided this by the width of two sides of super 8 less the stripe widths, meaning each splice will only use around 14.3mm of tape. Yes I agree this is what ends up 'on the film' but to ensure no finger prints or fluff from cotton editing gloves ends up on the visible on-screen area of the tape, the 5cm per splice to allow for pre-cut overhang I stated earlier is far more realistic and will give at least 200 splices per roll. Everything else in the description is acurate and from the picture of it looks to be in good condition too.
These is also a nice boxed Fujica splicer very cheaply priced on Ebay if you decide to go that way:

http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=7514954278&rd=1&sspagename=STRK%3AMEWA%3AIT&rd=1

Perhaps Mark could let us know the current price of a roll of tape for the Fujica model from Classic, and is it the original green boxed rolls or freshly manufactured? Good advice about striping as well, I preferred to stripe film before any editing or cleaning is done to give the stripe the best chance of staying on the film with no bumps over even the best made splices. I must dust off my old striper and have a go again to see if I still have the knack!

| IP: Logged

David Pannell
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1072
From: Horsham, West Sussex, UK
Registered: Nov 2004

posted May 13, 2005 05:52 AM

Thanks for that, Kevin. I'll certainly bear it in mind, butI think I'll wait to see what kind of a deal I can get with Mike's CIR first.

Dave.

--------------------
Dave.

Valves and celluloid - a great combination!
Early technology rules OK!

| IP: Logged

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted May 13, 2005 06:37 AM

Mark, This is why I use the Wurker. It does leave both stripes clear.
Jan, I was unaware that they made the wrap round spilce patces as well. I have only ever seen the 2 or 4 patch tapes which leave both stripes uncovered.
You live and learn. [Wink]

I also have a couple of the Fuji splicers and they are excellent and really well made.
Kev C, Does the CIR leave the balance strip uncovered? It would be anoying to have sound dropout on stereo films at each splice. [Frown]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

| IP: Logged

Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 13, 2005 07:14 AM

'Tis the only caveat with the CIR splicers - as the cut tape has to wrap around the film to contact both sides the fold is on the balance stripe edge so a sound drop from track 2 will be experienced. Personally I've never regarded it as an issue as I really only splice films together as showreels (ie: ends to tales of different shorts, nothing mid-soundtrack) and the joins in nearly all my features on 1200ft & 2,300ft spools are at picture / scene change points. It could affect stereo film makers though in which case the Wurker using Duoplay splice tape patches is the only answer, unless you have immense patience and a very steady hand using a sharp modelling knife to cut off the CIR tape just over the balance soundtrack area (playback head contact side of the film) after the tape is applied - not a recommendation but just a workaround suggestion of course.

| IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 13, 2005 07:18 PM

Ah, and I was starting to get excited about the auction for the CIR splicer. But yes, I *much* prefer whatever leaves both sound stripes free - indeed, although I don't seem to have any problems running "wrap-around" splices through my projector, having two separate pieces of tape on either side of the film just seems so much nicer. This is where the Wurker splicer really shines, IMHO, if you can find the correct splices. [Cool]

Actually, I believe Andreas from http://www.movies-and-sound.de/ has these in stock! I'll have to ask him how many packages he's got and how many splices each one contains. Unless one of you does it first. [Wink]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

| IP: Logged

Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 14, 2005 05:01 AM

If a well made CIR originated 'wrap around' splice using the correct splice tape would not pass smoothly through any projector gate I would check the projector sprung side guides / pressure plate first rather than question the quality of the CIR splice. The metal models of these splicers are superbly made precision tools. Jan - the 'if' you can find the correct splice tapes for Wurker splicers part of your previous post says it all - this would for me set the alarm bells ringing regarding the long term viability of the Wurker against the CIR. I can live with a 1/24th second sound drop on the balance stripe between films / reels no problem, there are far more non splice related pops and sound drops on most original package movie soundtracks anyway [Wink]

It's up to the individual user to decide what suits their own requirements of course - as I make & undo splices on a regular basis the cost effective element of the CIR plays a large part in my decision along with the fact I like the CIR Italian 'built to last' engineering and Italians in general (my lovely wife is Italian too!) Thinking about it perhaps I should really switch to using Fumeo projectors as well!.

| IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 14, 2005 12:21 PM

You got me thinking about this one now. Perhaps you're right, the split-second dropout on balance tracks caused by wrap-around splices is not that much of a deal-breaker. I was thinking about editing my own home-made films but then again I tend to edit a film before having it striped, and for that I can use cement splices since Kodachrome is acetate film, and with a well-done cement splice there seems to be no problem applying the sound stripe right over it. After all, this is why I picked up a cement splicer along with the Elmo projector... my thought was to use it to edit all the features onto big reels, I just didn't know then that most of them would be polyester-based causing me to have to go back to tape splices! [Roll Eyes]

And yet again - I prefer to have to do a splice only once and never again, so I haven't gone through that many tape splices yet. Bottom line, the Wurker will last me a while, and when I do run out I suppose a new 50-pack of 'duoplay' tape splices will still set me back much less than a whole new CIR splicer, tempting as it is. [Smile]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

| IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted May 14, 2005 03:33 PM

I have a CIR splicer, and find that with the cut and join when making
trailer show reels, there is always a 'pop' or 'click' sound at the splice
which is amplified during a show and is very annoying.

I wish this could be eliminated? [Confused]

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

| IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 14, 2005 05:40 PM

This may happen if the cutting blade on your splicer for some reason has become magnetized and kind of "records" the click/pop noise onto the edge of the cut while it's being made. I've not noticed it on my splices, fortunately, but obviously you want to make sure whichever splicer you use is either using anti-magnetic metal or is properly demagnetized (i.e. made for use with sound film).

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

| IP: Logged

Kevin Clark
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 978
From: Bapchild, Kent, UK
Registered: May 2004

posted May 14, 2005 06:41 PM

Hello Michael
I have never really sufferred from pop noises that were very prominent with the exception of splices on super 8 / 16mm optical film, with the pop occuring as a line or opaque part of the splice went through the sound photosensor lightbeam, and always worse with 16mm cement splices. To ensure I wasn't deluding myself I've just tested a two foot length of leader looped in a ST1200HD, with splices every four inches made with my heavy duty (it has no model number) CIR splicer. There was only one pop, from the last splice which was rushed / not very flat, but even that went away once the loop had gone through about ten times (flattening the splice tape?). I really pumped up the voloume as well as I used striped clear leader to test this. I then tried Jan's suggestion that magnetism from a cutting blade could create pops, and by touching the film edge a few times with a magnetic screwdriver tip I created prominent pop sounds on the track so it may be worth checking your splicer. Did you by any chance use a magnetised screwdriver to remove the splicer cutting blade or matrix for cleaning / replacement? Use of a sound head de-magnetiser on the splicer block & blade might do the trick. Also I have occasionally spliced film the wrong way up, thus covering the main soundtrck with tape instead of leaving it clear. The film has to be placed on the splicer with the supply reel to your left (soundtrack facing down on the matrix). Hope this may help, keep us informed please.

| IP: Logged

Michael De Angelis
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1261
From: USA
Registered: Jul 2003

posted May 14, 2005 11:05 PM

Hello Chaps,

I wish to send a special thank you to Jan and Kevin, regarding the demagnetizing of the splicer cutter. This is something that I never considered and it makes sense. I own the The Cir Guillotine Delux model which I had purchased years ago.

It is usually problematic for me when after I make a splice, the cut in the join
is evident by a slight white space or gap between the film ends, and always thought that it was something inherent in the poor quality of my splicing technique that created the clicks and pops.

Am I still doing something wrong here? [Confused]

By the way, please describe the proper technique in de-magnetizing.

--------------------
Isn't it great that we can all communicate about this great
hobby that we love!

| IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 15, 2005 12:52 AM

If you're consistently getting small gaps between the joined film ends then it seems that your splicer's matrix needs adjustment (to bring the two halves just a TINY bit closer together)... then again it could be that the film ends are OK (probably the case if the sprocket holes before and after the cut are at just the right distance from each other) but the blade is cutting a bit too much off one of the ends? I'm not sure... a picture would help...

But as for demagnetizing, this process is achieved by exposing the metal to a strong, quickly alternating magnetic field which slowly decreases in intensity until it is completely gone. There are demagnetizers that plug directly into your AC wall socket (the AC obviously provides for the alternating magnetic field) so what you do is plug it in, hold it very close to the metal, then SLOWLY withdraw until you're a good distance away (a few feet at least), then turn it off or unplug it - done. [Smile]

And don't do this with any boxes full of audio or video cassettes nearby, or for that matter, super-8 sound film. [Big Grin]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

| IP: Logged

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted May 15, 2005 03:29 AM

Ive only ever used a good old quicksplice myself, never paid more than a fiver for one although the tapes are around £7-£10 a pack these day's, and to get the best result & as they cover 4 frames i always cut them in half and as yet in 25 years have never had one come apart.with only two frames covered it goes twice as far and is a lot less noticable.
Have to admit i have always wanted a cir, there petty much a more proffesional chice,(i assume) [Wink]

| IP: Logged

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted May 15, 2005 10:38 AM

*smacks forehead* That is a great idea!!! Pick up the 4-frame splices and just cut each one in half! Why haven't I thought of that before!!! [Eek!]

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

| IP: Logged

All times are Central

This topic comprises 2 pages: 1 2

Printer-friendly view of this topic

UBB.classic^TM 6.3.1.2