8mm Forum: Screening films with sync'ed sound from DVDs

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Topic: Screening films with sync'ed sound from DVDs

Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted June 11, 2005 07:11 PM

1. Is the Elmo GS-1200 the only projector that offers any means of synchronizing with a video source (VHS/DVD) for the purpose of playing sound from said source, rather than the film's own soundtrack? Or are there any other projectors with this capability? Which ones?

2. Am I correct in assuming that a GS-1200 and one of Pedro's sync units does not actually synchronize with, say, a DVD player, but rather just runs at a quartz-locked speed stable enough to stay in sync with the DVD on its own (for the runtime of a feature film)?

3. When you re-record sound onto film from a DVD source, how do you get the film and video source started at the same time so the image from both matches up (ensuring that the sound does also)?

3b. How difficult is it to re-record a film that had its leaders/tails snipped off and was edited onto larger reels without regard for frame-exact editing? Can the re-recording process be interrupted and re-started in the middle of such a film in order to re-establish sync? (Note, I am talking about films that had been edited/spliced before they came into my possession so I would not be able to undo such editing and restore any original leaders or tails.)

4. If I provide a super-8 feature film (with main & balance sound stripes) along with its DVD version, would one of you guys be able/willing to do the re-recording for me?

5. Will Kevin Faulkner be the first to respond to this post? [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 13, 2005 02:46 AM

We've covered all of this before Jan. May be worth searching for the wealth of information discussed previously.

1) There are other projectors around. I've seen a Fuji with an ESS port. Whether or not it works of course is another matter.

2) Crystal sync' doesn't rely on any separate source for synchronization. It's all within the sync' box itself. NB: Only pulse sync' to PAL currently works. Pedro's working on this and in the future we may all be able to finally sync' up NTSC sourced material.

3) Trial and error is the easiest way.

3b) Piece of cake.

4) I can't currently help with a re-recording as my machine is away for repair. Second machine doesn't record quite so well and third records like crap. Get along to the 50th BFCC in October and I'll show you how it's done.

5) Doesn't look like it.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 13, 2005 06:42 AM

Jan, No I wasnt [Razz]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted June 13, 2005 09:24 AM

*grins at Kevin* [Wink]

John, you're right, I should have done a search before [Roll Eyes]

but as you can see I tend to have very specific kinds of questions and usually find that I can get the answers I want by simply asking them whereas trying to piece the info together from search results sometimes proves fruitless. Sometimes. [Eek!]

In regard to 1. ... I'd still like to hear about other specific models besides the GS-1200 and that Fuji machine [Smile]

Also, it wouldn't necessarily have to have an ESS system, would it? For example, Bauer T5xx and T6xx projectors can be modified to run at quartz-controlled speeds, however that's done more for the purpose of flicker-free transfers to video, rather than re-recording sound from a video source. So while those speeds should be very stable indeed, I wonder if they're close enough to PAL/NTSC/what-have-you frequencies to stay in sync for a recording session.

Argh, I ought to quit worrying and pick up a Eumig S926 GL. (I'd find ways to deal with the reel arrangement and the lack of a feed sprocket.) [Wink]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 13, 2005 01:40 PM

I didn't make a note of the Fuji model projector. Buckingham brought one along for sale to a couple of BFCC's recently and it intrigued me. I think it was up for £400 but looked a bit plasticky compared to a GS. Would it be prone to scratching with all that plastic?

Plenty of earlier Elmo's had all sorts of wonderful syncy' jiggery pokery but whether they'd lock to a video is unknown.

Remember if you take the plunge you'll currently only be able to sync' to PAL sourced video. Shame as I rather fancy showing Jurassic Park with the DTS tracks of an NTSC disc at a future convention sometime. Waiting with baited breath for Pedro to work a miracle.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Alan Rik
Film God

Posts: 2211
From: New York City, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 13, 2005 02:50 PM

Hi Jan,

1) I know that you can use a Bauer T610, 510 and the Beaulieu 708el if they are modified with a reed switch contact. However the Bauer's do not have variable speed so if you are a little off you cannot correct it. The Beaulieu 708 does have variable speed.
What is a reed switch? I dont really know! [Smile]

2) Answered above
3) The best way if you have a GS is to place the projector in play/Still mode on the exact frame that you are starting with. Then you tape the left and right record levels down.
You then ready the DVD on the exact frame same as the frame on the film. Then you get ready, and at the same time you let go the still on the GS (then it will start playing/recording), you press play on the DVD. For me I use a G4 Powerbook Laptop and set it up to pay PAL disks. Since the projector and the laptop are side to side and the image is about the same you can watch and know right away if the cuts are the same. Once in sync it will not drift! Unless you are missing some frames. I have done the "Snowman", "Flash Gordon", "Grease", "Bugsy Malone". They came out great when the mag tracks were good. Not so good on all of "Flash" and "Grease" but great on the others!
3b) With the GS if the scene is quiet and not in the middle of a music section you can stop the scene, cue it up and it will start recording at the exact point. Gets a little hard when you are trying something with a lot of music. The great thing about a variable speed projector and the ESS system is when the scene is quiet and inbetween dialogue and music, you can press the fast or slow button the GS and remain in perfect sync without having to stop the projector. One incredible machine truly!
4) If you contact Steve Osborne at the Reel Image he had an ad in the last magazine that said he would give you a quote to re-record soundtracks into Stereo or another language if you wanted.
His contact is here:
937 296 9036

Best of luck to you! Once you hear a re-recorded soundtrack it is really hard to go back to the ones that are provided with the films. Now I just have to do the Bruce Lee films and "Beauty and the Beast".. and "Cinderella" and.....

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted June 13, 2005 11:51 PM

Thanks again for all the info, guys [Smile]

Keep it up and I'll end up getting a GS-1200 myself, to heck with my credit cards [Big Grin]

One more question though, is there any way to predict how good (or badly) the existing sound stripe will take a new recording? Suppose the existing soundtrack drops out occasionally and even changes volume levels once or twice throughout the film - is this just a badly done recording or will this mean that a new re-recording may come out with the same problems? (Assuming that the actual film and stripes are clean of dirt and oxide buildup)

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1954
From: Cornwall
Registered: Jun 2003

posted June 14, 2005 01:48 AM

Do a test down the leader of each reel before tackling the actual film.

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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