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Topic: Marketing Films.A question

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted June 18, 2005 11:11 AM

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Hopefully someone will be a little more up on this subject so please come back if you are.
Fading prints of marketing films has been mentioned before. I do know that there feature lenght films are definatly turning so as caution i once asked a dealer about a 3 x 400ft i wanted to buy but was cautiou about the fading. He did explain to me that the 3 x 400ft films were actualy made from a different lab to that of the full length films and that is why the feature films suffer so much due to the different stocks used. I do have to say that we do own quite a few of the 3 x 400footers and so far they all appear to be ok,namely Once upon a time in the west,Star Trek TMP, The Warriors, war of the worlds, Saturday night Fever,Chinatown,(also made longer with part one of the feature)The Godfather,one & two, Marathon Man,
The only full feature we have is The Longest Yard(AKA the mean machine) which so far is fine with no fade at all. What worries me is most of the full films i see on lists always seem to have fade or faded.
Whats your thoughts on this please? [Wink]

[Wink]

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John Clancy
Phenomenal Film Handler

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From: Cornwall
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posted June 18, 2005 12:18 PM

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My mother purchased "Death on the Nile" new from Derann when it was first released. I haven't watched it in about a year but it could be fading. As far as I can recall it always had the same look it had last time I saw it. Not a great print but good for its day. I'll check it again possibly this evening.

However, it's always important to bear in mind print quality in 1980 was not up to current standards. I have several prints that were crap when I bought them around 25 years ago and are still crap today. Most people would think they are fading but the fading was actually printed in. Suppose they could be getting even worse but again I'll have to double check.

--------------------
British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Chip Gelmini
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From: Brooksville, FL
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posted June 18, 2005 01:07 PM

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I have the full length feature print of The Godfather purchased new. The print is 15 years old. It has gone pretty much sepia tone through out the print, as well as my print of Saturday Night Fever. My print of Grease full length is still very good, with some slight fade at the Dance contest reel. And I grew up thinking Italian pasta sauce should be red.

CG

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted June 18, 2005 02:21 PM

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They may have spilt some on the negative [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

Must say the 2nd batch of 3x400footers was noticably much better in quality. I do remember Marketing even sending out free of charge Paramount logos to those who claimed for them because of the moans and groans of us collectors about the poor title seqences. On the 2nd batch every one thought they were going to improve this and what did they do? Took off all original titles all together and replaced them them with crapy letraset junk. [Mad]

[Mad]

Mind you the prints did make up for it, my warriors and war of the worlds are superb as is the 400ft version of when worlds collide. Also of course, Star Trek TMP. Very good prints and not a speck of neg dust anywhere.
Imagine how good a 3rd set of new title releases would have been, perhaps with original titles back in, oh well, poxy video crap killed that off.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

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posted June 18, 2005 03:30 PM

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Makes one wish VHS had shared the fate of Betamax. [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

('course, if it had, we'd all be cursed with Video 2000 by now - the little-known third contender...)

--------------------
Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Douglas Meltzer
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posted June 18, 2005 03:36 PM

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Tom,

All my Marketing 3x400's have kept their color except for "Once Upon A Time In The West" which has faded miserably (or faded very well, depending on how you look at it).
As for features:
"The Warriors"-very slight fade, but excellent contrast
"Chinatown"-a touch on the pink side
"Saturday Night Fever"-definite warming, but still has strong blues and greens
"The Godfather"-Sepia tint
"Death Wish"- still good!

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Andreas Eggeling
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posted June 18, 2005 04:03 PM

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Doug,

which of your listed marketing films are made on the same material (thin polyester) as the marketing film "Cross of Iron"?

Andreas

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted June 18, 2005 04:11 PM

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Cross of Iron, thats odd, Iver films were on the brink of releasing that title as a 3x400ft, wonder if marketing took that over as Iver were closing?? [Confused]

[Confused]

Doug, i dont like the sound of those 3x400's you got. I will be checking all mine over the next week. I wonder what percentage of our collections are sudenly going to be worthless before too much longer. Wonder if some of the 8mm componies saw it coming with the crapy films stocks used in the early 80's and thought best go now before the sueing starts later.

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Andreas Eggeling
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posted June 18, 2005 05:42 PM

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Tom,

"Cross of Iron" from marketing-film (1977 release), not from Iver films.

Have Douglas sent a clip. The english sound prints from marketing were made in different labs in germany and USA. I want
to find out which prints from which lab turning red easier.
The polyester filmstock of marketing-films made in germany on grey posso reels was never used for prints from KEN, Universal8, MGM. If they used polyester, the material need nearly the same place like acetate.

Andreas

[ June 19, 2005, 02:05 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Brad Kimball
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posted June 18, 2005 11:22 PM

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I have the "Ten Commandments" 3X400'er and the color is still terific. Rich Blues and Greens throughout and the sound is excellent, too. I guess I just lucked out. It's a second-hand print I got on EBAY about 3 years ago and I think the original owner must have only watched it once because the original making tape used to hold down the leaders were all intact and not one bit tatty or stained.

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Andreas Eggeling
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posted June 19, 2005 01:41 AM

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Brad,

how full are the reels?
Are the color of the reels grey and the film takes place of about
60% of the reel?

Andreas

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John Clancy
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posted June 19, 2005 07:33 AM

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Ran reel 1 of Death on the Nile last night and to start with I really thought it was going pink, but it seems to only be limited to particular scenes. If it was turning wouldn't all the blacks be fading a bit pink? Many of the blacks are still very black indeed.

Just the way it was printed perhaps?

Doesn't seem to look any worse than I remember it from years ago. In fact, last night I was surprised by how good the print quality is overall. I'll probably stick another reel on later.

Doug, send that print of Death Wish over and I'll give you my opinion of it! [Wink]

[Wink]

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British Film Collectors Convention home page www.bfcc.biz. The site is for the whole of the film collecting hobby and not just the BFCC.

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Douglas Meltzer
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posted June 19, 2005 10:31 AM

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Tom-I just want to clarify....all of my 3x400's are in good shape except for "Once Upon...." which I picked up on eBay and has some extended scenes via another distributor's version (Walton?). The additional scenes are in even worse shape than the Marketing print. There's very bad fade and the audio is poor. These scenes also do not have a balance stripe.

Andreas-If I remember correctly, the only thin polyester Marketing prints I have are the 3x400's "Rosemary's Baby" (great color) and "The Ten Commandments" (not as nice as Brad's copy). None of my features are on thin stock.
That "Cross Of Iron" clip you sent me looks just fantastic.

John-I'll start sending it over a few frames at a time. [Wink]

[Wink]

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Kevin Faulkner
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posted June 19, 2005 10:53 AM

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John, Yes the high density areas are the first to go when fade sets in. If the balcks are still black then it could be down to print grading when it was first made.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted June 19, 2005 11:27 AM

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Thanks Doug, i miss read that [Embarrassed]

[Embarrassed]

I'll check my Once upon a time in America tonight.
I note on the U8 films the universal 8 intro is always well past the fade stage before the rest of the film.
I'd like to see the cross of iron 3x400ft. Is the sound English or was it only availible in Germany?

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Andreas Eggeling
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posted June 19, 2005 02:42 PM

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Tom,

marketing-film got the rights from the german theatrical distributor. So it was only available in Germany with german sound.

Andreas

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Tom Photiou
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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted June 19, 2005 04:22 PM

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Thats a good one to hold on to i reckon.

Jeepers what is wrong with me today Doug, I just relaised i said once upon a time in America!! I meant West. I'm going to lay down for a minuite, Must be the heat [Big Grin]

[Big Grin]

When did Marketing actualy start using Kodak stock? I wonder what made them switch, Why did companies shy away from Kodak in the first place, after all, Kodak stock was well proven i thought. Our old home movies from the Very early 70's are as good in colour today as the day we got them back from processing.
I was looking at the marketting catalouge from the first releases in 1980, i note that all films were paramount films except for Barracuda,this and Barbarella rarly come up on the lists, does anyone have these titles?
I dont suppose anyone has any other marketing catalouges they would want to sell on?
Just flipping through this first catalouge they did it makes you realise how important this German company was for super 8 in getting the Paramount deal. Some superb releases and the packaging was top notch. (even though full features were only supplied in cheapy cardboard boxes)

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Trevor Adams
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posted June 19, 2005 11:24 PM

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Barracuda is going pink but Barbarella has just faded a bit.The Formula held it's colour well.

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Trevor

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Douglas Meltzer
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posted June 20, 2005 12:27 AM

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Tom,

After you get up from your rest, you can order some Marketing catalogs (in german) from Andreas' site. http://movies-and-sound.com/

Doug

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I think there's room for just one more film.....

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Andreas Eggeling
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posted June 20, 2005 04:41 AM

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Tom,

they started thin Kodak polyester stock in 1977 for their adult labels "Love Film", "Paradiso" and "Anabelle" to get 600 feet versions in a 400 footer box (same box, similar seals, similar plastic inlay, but not blue colored).

The first marketing labled titles on thin Kodak polyester were annouced in the 1978/79 season. The first titles were "Plattfuss in Afrika" (Piedone l'africano), "Der Querkopf" (La Zizanie) and "Barracuda" which was not only a 8mm title, marketing-film was also one of the production companies and distributed the film on 35mm.
Early released titles were changed from acetate to polyester filmstock when new editions were made.

The first paramount titles came out 1979. But unfortunately the german market was only delivered with three parter editions. We got no full lenght [Mad]

[Mad]

or 400 feet editions. Only a part of titles were didstributed as 200 feet versions labled with REVUE FILM, distributed for the Home Order Market.

Thanks Doug for mention my page.

Trevor, THE FORMULA was not a marketing-film release.

Andreas

[ June 21, 2005, 10:59 AM: Message edited by: Andreas Eggeling ]

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Tom Photiou
Film God

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From: Plymouth U.K
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posted June 20, 2005 11:46 AM

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Thanks for the link Doug,
Andreas, you must do a marketing films history read for the FFTC mag, i shall be visiting your site tomorrow evening, (out tonight [Mad]

[Mad]

) Altough the features wernt availible in Germany i think the extra abundance of title not availible in UK makes up for that. I also still think the 3 x 400 mini- feature length is excellent, be good if the market made these availible again today, (Master And commander would be superb)
Pity marketing didnt also allow for the scope user. [Roll Eyes]

[Roll Eyes]

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