8mm Forum: Why not auto-thread?

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Topic: Why not auto-thread?

Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted October 09, 2005 10:45 AM

I was having a read of various old mags ets today and i noticed more than one that "proffessional" projectionist do not like auto-threading projectors at all.
Bearing in mind this is a creation on little gauge machines with the ameture in mind, so for me i cant imagine why on earth anyone would prefere manual lacing. [Confused]

Maybe someone could enlighten me. (Please). [Wink]

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted October 09, 2005 06:26 PM

I think it's just attitude and little more. Nothing wrong with auto-threading, as long as it's well taken care of, and your film is properly trimmed and not curled too much. Some people just prefer manual threading because there's no risk of film being eaten. (And slot threading is nice on my Eiki SSL-0...) [Smile]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Brad Kimball
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1171
From: Highland Mills, NY USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 09, 2005 08:31 PM

I concur.... I have both and I agree there's less risk of compromising precious footage in a slot-load being that one can easily remove it from the path and that unless the gate and path are PRISTINE, film does tend to "c-r-u-n-c-h" on its way to the take-up. However, auto-threaders can be rather nice when maintained.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 10, 2005 04:24 PM

The first autothreaders (16mm Bell & Howell sound projectors) had lots or problems. Aside from the "accordian" leader, many times a print would wind up badly scratched because the film was run without releasing the threading mechanism. Some operators would break the film to remove it mid run and so forth. Auto threaders on 8mm machines were less trouble and when the sprockets were removed on silent machines there were fewer problems.

Professionals or semi-pros prefered the control that manual threading gave them and soon slot loading was introduced as a compromise between the simple loading and the ability to have access to the film. The graflex was the first slot load 16mm machine I remember and by the time Elmo and Eiki introduced their slot load machines, they allowed "rewinding" thru the gate for review. Of course slot loaders gave up reverse running.

This is all academic history now since at this point in time, we have what we have and there is litte if any chance of any new projector being introduced, much less a new loading design (and there were a few on the table back in the late 60s that didn't make it to a product line).

John

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Adrian Winchester
Film God

Posts: 2941
From: Croydon, London, UK
Registered: Aug 2004

posted October 10, 2005 04:56 PM

Regarding slot loads, I wonder if anyone considered launching a Super 8 machine?

Although I think the Eikis work well when they are properly threaded, I've found that even if you are careful, a film can occasionally get 'clamped' out of position, over the side of the gate, when the pressure plate moves into position. This is particularly exasperating if you are starting a film part of the way through - when you see the damage that results!

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Adrian Winchester

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 10, 2005 05:24 PM

Adrian, that sounds really horrible. I have never had that happen with the 16CL thanks goodness but thats not to say it doesnt.....bet it does it now on the next use [Frown]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted October 10, 2005 10:57 PM

Never happened on my Eiki SSL-0, either, although I can conceive it could happen when you first load a new film and engage forward projection (if the film wasn't properly placed inside the "slot path" you got trouble right there). But apart from that I find that turning the take-up reel a bit in order to tension the film, then engaging the gate and sprockets and going into projection mode is just about the best way to prevent accidents.

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 11, 2005 07:41 AM

My vote for the best auto threading system goes to the Eumig 938/940 stereo machines. Absolutely flawless threading every time!

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The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted October 11, 2005 10:04 AM

Excellent threading on the Beaulieu 708 too... [Big Grin]

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted October 11, 2005 10:04 AM

Excellent threading on the Beaulieu 708 too... [Big Grin]

(Glad to see you had such a good time in the UK, Paul. Shame you couldn't make your trip coincide with the BFCC).

Oops, sorry about the double post, I hit the "back" button at the wrong moment...

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The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted October 11, 2005 11:24 AM

I must say for the 1200 elmo's ive not yet incurred any problems.

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 11, 2005 11:41 AM

I've never had anything worse happen with autothread than the leader get mangled (and isn't that why it's there anyway?).

The one tiny gripe I have is neither of my sound projectors (1 Eumig and 1 Elmo) seem to be able to grab the leader with the take up reel. In both cases it usually just about reaches the core of the reel before it flops down under its own weight and heads for the table. No big deal: I just stop the machine, wrap the leader around the reel and we're on our way.

The best autothread I've ever seen? Kodak Moviedeck, believe it or not. I don't think I've ever seen it not work when the film is in reasonable shape. Good thing too: the film access is pretty much nil here.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted October 11, 2005 03:42 PM

Never had problems on the Elmo or Noris machines. I agree with Steve about the take-up spool though thats normally down to the floppy old polyester stocks. Good acetate stock and it normally works first time. [Smile]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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