8mm Forum: Blackhawk, the standard for Laurel and Hardy?

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Topic: Blackhawk, the standard for Laurel and Hardy?

Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 06, 2005 10:36 AM

Here's a new topic. I was wondering, all you forum members, is Blackhawk films the standard for super 8mm copies of the Laurel and Hardy films?

I recently aquired "Way Out West" a Blackhawk print, and was a little annoyed that the focus isn't as good as on many a short subject print by Blackhawk. If I remember correctly, Blackhawk has the print rights to Hal Roaches original print library.

Are thier better super 8 prints from other companies? In quiring minds want to know.

OSI

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 06, 2005 11:54 AM

I slao have the BlackHawk print of W out W and have found it to be quite good. Walton and Mountain did them in the UK and on the whole they were quite good. The only complaint was that although the Walton prints tended to have good pic quality they were shortened. I think this was something to do with the release rights.
On the whole though I have prefered the Blackhawk prints. They seem to have a much nicer contrast to them whereas the Waltons tended to look a bit dupey at times. This was especially so of the Mountain releases.

Kev.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 06, 2005 01:01 PM

Blackhawk changed labs at some point and the print quality went down. The early regular 8 and super 8 prints were generally very sharp. Don't know who they changed to, but I think the original lab was Calvin Company in Kansas City.

John

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 08, 2005 10:43 AM

It can vary a lot on these prints. For instance, the first reel of my copy of "Way Out West" is brighter, while the second reel on has VERY nice contrast, good grain and slightly better focus.

As a general rule, I've found the Laurel and Hardy shorts tend to have a better clarity to them than the features. I don't why this is so but it is much appreciated. Soemtimes it doesn't help much. I picked up a copy of "Brats" a short while back, and whether it's the sound or silent edition, this short tends to have a mariginal focus at best. It must be due to the original negative. I just picked up a brilliant copy of "Dirty Work" (love those falling bricks!) for five bucks! What a steal, and it was never played!

I'd be curious to learn about the history of the film labs used by Blackhawk, as it was mentioned that Blackhawk later on switched to a second film lab and thier standards went down slightly.

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Gary Crawford
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 979
From: Manassas, VA. USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 08, 2005 10:50 AM

I bought a Way out West Standard 8mm sound feature from Blackhawk new in 1969....and it , too , was very soft on details...good grey scale, but facial features...etc...very soft..almost couldnt see Stan's eyes on medium shots. Some of the Super 8 shorts I got later were much better....Scram is outstanding....Going Bye Bye also. Haven't seen a decent print yet of Hog Wild.

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted December 08, 2005 03:11 PM

We have a couple of short L&H's from Blackhawk, all have very good print quality, the exception being thicker than water. It is very good but awkward to focus as it is a little softer than the other we own. All be, it is still very good. This particular titleis STD 8mm and is renowned for being their last short. [Wink]

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Kurt Gardner
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 193
From: San Antonio, TX
Registered: Aug 2005

posted December 09, 2005 09:07 AM

I have several Blackhawk L&Hs, including "Way Out West." It looks pretty good. I acquired a Blackhawk "Music Box" on eBay. It came mounted on a 600' reel (both parts spliced together). The first reel is excellent, but the second reel is soft and almost looks like a dupe. The same thing happened when I got "Beau Hunks" from the same seller. I don't know if both parts are authentic Blackhawks or if I got shanghaied. It's not unwatchable, but surprising that the quality would vary so drastically. In general, though, the Blackhawks tend to be the benchmark.

I also have a few Walton prints, and they vary radically from acceptable to blecchh. My print of "The Live Ghost" is so blown out it makes everyone in the film look like ghosts!

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Tom Photiou
Film God

Posts: 4837
From: Plymouth U.K
Registered: Dec 2003

posted December 09, 2005 02:52 PM

Hi Kurt, strange as we also have this Walton title on a 400ft STD 8 and print is superp.

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Osi Osgood
Film God

Posts: 10204
From: Mountian Home, ID.
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 19, 2005 12:23 PM

You know, the strange thing is that Blackhawk titles an range so much, even with the very SAME title. I have both silent and sound versions of "Brats", one of my favorites, and believe it or not, the silent version has a very noticeable difference in sharpness of image, it's really like night and day. Hmmmm.

On a side note, I just won a copy of "Blockheads" on super 8 for 45.00 dollars, not too bad. I personally feel that Blockheads was the last of the truly great Laurel and Hardy comedies. They did make one other decent comedy, thier very next, "Flying Dueces", but there comedies, taken out of Stan Laurels personal hands after "Blockheads", really suffered, no one understood the team of Laurel and Hardy like Stan laurel, and he wrote accordingly, so I'm very happy to ave Blockheads in my collection.

and the cool thing is that I have secured a DVD copy of "Way Out West" and "Blockheads" with truly killer sound, so when I re-record these soundtracks, these super 8's are going to sound stunning with that re-processed dolby stereo sound!

All the best

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