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Topic: elmo st-800 questions

Scott G. Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 229
From: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted December 19, 2005 05:23 PM

Hey guys,

My new used (allegedly refurbished) Elmo ST-800 (Magnetic Sound) arrived the other day with some problems (ah, the joys of ebay!).

First, the take-up reel quit after the third cartoon, but this was a simple enough problem: the belt had come off, so I put it back on. Easily done.

Second (and more tricky), I am getting no sound playback from any of the films I've tried and I'm at a loss for how to proceed. I am pretty sure that my old WB cartoons do not have optical sound (correct?). Any suggestions for particular wires to jiggle or bits to clean (and how)?

Luckily, if this proves to be irreparable, the dude I bought it from on ebay has agreed to refund my purchase price as well as shipping (!!!). Now that's customer service. Still, it's a nice little machine and I'd like to keep it if I can get it up and running.

Thanks for your help!

SGB

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"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 19, 2005 05:29 PM

Ah!,

The classic ST-800 scenario: No sound! This was exactly what mine was like when I first got it too.

Try this (power off!):

1) Find the red record key and tap it on and off let's say a dozen times.

2) Find a phone jack that fits the various input and output jacks on the machine. Insert and withrdraw a dozen times.

Does the sound work now?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 19, 2005 06:35 PM

Hi,
I thought it was only me who did what Steve has mentioned. Yes, sometimes when the sound was gone, I hit the (red)record button quickly (not too long, otherwise you'll erase the original sound) and the sound will be on again.

I think this is a common problem due to the age. It could be the capacitor, IC or anything like that.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 19, 2005 07:10 PM

Actually what it is about is that the ELMO machines are equipped with self-cleaning switches, but years of idleness let oxides build up. Working the switches cleans them again.

I emphasize the phono-plug thing because this is how I first got sound out of mine. I was trying to troubleshoot it, and figured I could use the headphone jack to isolate whether the problem was in the sound head and preamp, or in the final amp stages driving the loudspeaker (pretty ambitious stuff considering I didn't have a schematic!). So I plugged in a set of 'phones and I got sound! Not only that, but when I pulled them out the speaker worked too! Verdict? Cuttoff contacts on the phone jack were oxidized.

I find these machines are like a car: they really need to be run regularly to function well. Once I got beyond this teething stage mine became trouble free and a pleasure to use.

Once again, try this without power or film in the machine. At the very least you'll get some rude sounds out by tapping the recording key under power, and as Winbert said you can disrupt the tracks on films innocently passing through!

[ December 19, 2005, 08:37 PM: Message edited by: Steve Klare ]

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Scott G. Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 229
From: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted December 27, 2005 12:11 AM

Thanks for the advice, Steve. I finally had the chance to experiment with the projector today -- tried everything you suggested (several times over) and still no sound! Could it be something else?? SGB

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"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2005 09:02 AM

Sorry to hear that Scott, those were the easy ones!

Let’s see if your sound circuitry is getting power for a start.

When you turn the volume knob on and then up, do you hear “CLICK!” and then the hum of the rectified and filtered line voltage? –or just silence?

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Scott G. Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 229
From: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted December 27, 2005 09:14 AM

Just silence, Steve. No click or hum at all (in stark constrast to my Chinon, which purrs enthusiastically as soon as I plug it in). SGB

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"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2005 10:09 AM

quote:
No click or hum at all (in stark constrast to my Chinon, which purrs enthusiastically as soon as I plug it in). SGB

Well, then it's time to start at the beginning. Get out a trusy multimeter and start with voltage in. You'll have to find the right wires and start reading voltages and checking diodes on the main amp board.

Hopefully in this quest you'll find something easy and quick like a disconnected plug (came off in shipping) or a bad fuse or possibly a solder joint that needs to be re-heated that was bad but went open in shipping, etc.

There are countless possibilites, but tracing out power first and signal second will eventually lead to the correct diagnosis, then it's a matter of finding parts.

John

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2005 11:35 AM

I agree with John. Oddly enough, this is a good sign too, because it points to something that may be easier to fix than for example a zorched component.

(Stay on guard! It may turn out to be a zorched component too!)

What we are hoping you'll find is something oxidized, or loose or cracked (etc.). Hopefully something that a little cleaning, seating or patching will restore power and have you on your way.

It always comes down to starting at the input and seing where the power stops, then finding out why.

Happy Hunting!

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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Winbert Hutahaean
Film God

Posts: 5468
From: Nouméa, New Caledonia
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 27, 2005 05:06 PM

Scott,

Have you tested the machine with a headphone to check the sound. If you could hear the sound through the headphone it means all circuit and componets are all right. In this matter, the problem may be simple, i.e. Speaker connection.

cheers,

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Winbert

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Scott G. Bruce
Expert Film Handler

Posts: 229
From: Boulder, Colorado, USA
Registered: May 2005

posted December 29, 2005 11:42 AM

Thank you everyone for your kind and learned replies. I decided in the end to take the seller up on his offer to return the ELMO 800 for a full refund (including shipping). Those offers are rare on ebay these days and I simply didn't feel like I had the time and know-how at present to deal with the problem.

Also, in the meantime, I found a bigger and better projector: a gorgeous ELMO 1200ST, which arrived yesterday. As it turns out, your advice about the ELMO 800 applied to the new projector as well. The first film I ran through it this morning played well but with no sound, even though I could hear the purr of the speaker. A few taps on the record button and it ran the second time through with BOOMING sound. I think that this is the beginning of a beautiful friendship . . .

Thanks again for the help, guys. You are the best. I appreciate it.

SGB

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"Curse your sudden but inevitable betrayal!"

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2006 07:00 PM

This is unfortunately a common problem on all Elmo Sound machines. They spend most of their lives only ever playing back films and that Record tab never gets used. The exposed contacts on the record/play switch then become oxidised with the result of sound loss or being unable to record etc etc.
On the GS1200 you can even find that one level meter doesnt work or goes hard over. On some machines I have had to use some Servisol Switch cleaner/lube to sort this type of problem out. I always put my machine into record each time it is used for shows just to help keep this switch problem at bay. Having said that I do tend to also use my machine for rerecording in stereo from DVDs via its pulse sync facility so dont have this problem.
I have also seen this very same problem on some Eumigs so its not just a problem of Elmos.
I'm glad at the end of the day Scott, that your are now a happy bunny.

Please though guys you dont need to have film running through your machines to operate the record switch. Just run the machine with no film. You dont want to end up with soundtracks that have got missing bits and all sorts of clicks and pops.

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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