8mm Forum: What causes?

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Topic: What causes?

Bradford A Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Provincetown, Ma
Registered: Jul 2005

posted December 31, 2005 07:38 AM

Hey All!

This isn't your typical black line, and seems to occur primarily in 8mm. Thease lines are more in certain little areas, and look like black drips. I have throughly cleaned and lubed the film and have cleaned the path. I never have seen this in super8 that I am aware of.

Thanks Brad

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted December 31, 2005 12:10 PM

Hi Brad,

am I missing something here...? Your post sounds like a follow-up to some previous thread, for I'm quite uncertain as to what your issue is... [Confused]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 31, 2005 04:12 PM

Rewind Stress? There is another name for it but I have forgotten what it is. Its very minute base scratches caused by loose rewinding of the film. As the spool of film gets larger and slower on rewind the film then slips slightly as it tightens up causing these very fine small tear like abrasions.

Anyone know what they are called as I think Alzheimer's has just set in [Big Grin]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bob Pucci
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 520
From: Westerly,RI
Registered: Jun 2003

posted December 31, 2005 05:46 PM

I don't know if this is it.Could it be cinch marks.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2006 12:45 PM

Thanks Bob. That's exactly the name I was looking for [Smile]

Kev.

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GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Bradford A Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Provincetown, Ma
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 01, 2006 08:23 PM

I was talking to a friend of mine, that thought they were cause by a imperfection in the dupe process. Any thought on that?

Brad

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 01, 2006 09:39 PM

There are many many things that can be related to printing. If you have positive prints, then marks on a negative will be white on the print, not black. However if the problem occurs earlier in the chain, say on a fine grain or interpositive, then they could be duped in and black.

Chances are you will be able to see these on your film and they are blemishes caused by pulling the film tight on the reel and little bits of dirt dig into the emulsion. You'll need a good lupe or glass to look at the surface of the film and you'll need to twist it so you can catch the light across the surface.

Making 8mm prints from theatrical originals involves many steps and you're miles away from the original by the time you get to 8mm or super8.

Just think:

35mm negative -> 35mm fine grain -> 16mm reduction dupe negtive
-> 16mm fine grain -> 8mm dupe negative -> 8mm print.

Now there are printers that make 8mm prints from 16mm negtives by continuous optical reduction and these generally make four copies side by side on 35mm width film from a 16mm internegative.

Of course that was back in the golden age when Kodak still make 35mm film perfed 5R Super 8 with pre-stripe magnetic for re-recording and Bell & Howell make a continous optical reduction printer along with a sound re-recording unit that ran at 360 feet per minute!

There were other printer manufacturers as well (Peterson and Hollywood Film Company)and other formats (two up on 16mm film)

But it's not likely the defect you're describing would have happened on such equipment.

John

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2006 04:23 AM

OK, I am thick I know but where does the term "cinch" originate?

A google search failed to deliver!

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Tony

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Bradford A Moore
Master Film Handler

Posts: 272
From: Provincetown, Ma
Registered: Jul 2005

posted January 02, 2006 08:14 AM

I have only run into this problem with 8mm Blackhawk prints. Overall the prints are great, but have these black drippy lines. I have never seen them in Blackhawk super 8, but that doesn't mean they don't exist. The lines only appear from time to time, not through out the film. I just got a 8mm Blackhawk print of The Cabinet Of Dr Caligari, which looked pretty new, except the box was a little worn. I cleaned it with filmrenw, and the first reel, was line free. The other two reels were great, but had these lines from time to time. I had the same problem with a 8mm Blackhawk Phantom, which seemed to be even newer.
Brad

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Steve Klare
Film Guy

Posts: 7016
From: Long Island, NY, USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted January 02, 2006 10:23 AM

Here Tony,

Spanish cincha, feminine of cincho, belt, from Latin cnctus, from past participle of cingere, to gird. See kenk- in Indo-European Roots.

http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=cinch

I think the commonest usage of it before it became slang for a sure thing "It's a cinch" (An Americanism?), was the belt that holds the saddle on a horse, and the act of tightening it.

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All I ask is a wide screen and a projector to light her by...

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