8mm Forum: Cinch Marks

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Topic: Cinch Marks

Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 12, 2006 06:27 PM

I have a feature which has Cinch Marks on the base side of the film. [Frown]

The Emulsion side is still in pristine clean condition. [Smile]

What I think I need is something which I can put on the film such as wax or silicon to help minimixe these marks. It needs to be something which is going to be reasonably permanent and not one of the cleaners/Lubes which will evaporate off again.

I think I'm looking for Silicon impregnated wipes of some type?

Any ideas please? [Smile]

Thanks, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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David Kilderry
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 963
From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia
Registered: Feb 2006

posted February 13, 2006 04:05 AM

Hi Kevin,

Have a thorough look at the Kodak website, particularly the 35mm section with reference to projection and the Kodak Film Notes section on film-tech.com. They have a great deal of information on film cleaners, lubrication and waxing.

Several years ago Kodak changed the anti-stat used in 35mm release prints and advocated in extreme situations the use of wax application to prints. Head wraps (platter jams) were occuring and the wax was used as a lubricant. The type of wax and application were outlined in their publications.

I supervised many projection rooms at the time and the wax lubrication left no ill effects on our prints. The same would apply to Super 8.

Always ensure spools are wound tightly. Projection feed and take-up tension should also be correct.

Good luck with it Kevin.

David

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Craig Hamilton
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 501
From: Luton
Registered: Sep 2004

posted February 13, 2006 06:27 AM

Kev, try these, available from most car accessories stores or Halfords. Very kind to film & you will notice an improvement in gate noise while projecting.

Craig

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I dream of becoming a dealer!!!!!!
Is Perry's Movies for Sale.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 13, 2006 09:07 AM

Kev,
I was going to suggest 'ArmourAll Wipes' but Craig beat me to it. The only difference id that I use the'Protectant Wipes' not the dashboard wipes, I don't really know if there is any difference or not. Anyway, these wipes are apparently silicone and water based. I have been using them for some time now and so far no ill effects. But they definately seem to clean your films, make your films run smoother, lessen scratches, and over time will flatten film that has curled or warped. Plus they are absolutely safe!

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 13, 2006 11:28 AM

Kev,

I have just acquires some silicon based oil used in photocopiers as recommended by another forum poster.......try it if you want a risk......

--------------------
Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 13, 2006 06:43 PM

Ok Tony, I'm up for trying some of that oil. Is it silicon based? The main problem is making sure that the film doesnt start to slip through the pinch roller on the GS.
These armorall wipes, Paul, you say are also water based? Does this not cause any problems on the Emulsion side of the film?

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 13, 2006 08:29 PM

As I said Kev, I have had no problems at all with the Armorall Wipes over about a 3 year period of use. The wipes themselves are just slightly dampened with the solution when you pull them out of the container, so you are not putting a whole lot on. Also, I just rewind the film through the wipes using the projector rewind, so the film is going thru the wipes pretty fast. I contacted Armorall Inc. about the formulation of the protectant solution but of course it is a trade secret, but they did say it was a silicone fluid and water solution. Apparently the silicone lubricates the film, and the water swells the film base very slightly to close up minor scratches. They also said that they had no experience of it being using on motion picture film and therefore could not recommend it for such use. I have had old acetate films which were kicking up a hell of a fuss going thru the projector, which now run really smoothly after two or three rewinds thru the wipes. I also had a 400ft digest off eBay that was so badly shrunk that you could only focus on the center of the picture; after a few treatments with wipes the film is now almost perfectly flat. I'm not saying it's any better than commercial film lubricant/cleaner- just a whole lot safer. Try it out on an old reel of film Kev and see what you think.

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 14, 2006 03:42 AM

OK Paul, after you above comments I will get some and give them a go.
These cinch marks are on my beloved copy of the Close Encounters feature. This is why Im being careful how I treat it. I knew it had these marks when I obtained it but as there are only about 18 copies in circulation I decided to go for it instead of let it go.
Its a brilliant print, really sharp with great colour and stereo sound. Full scope too. So want to treat it in a kind sort of way.
I have tried WD on part of the first reel and that worked a treat but think that a silicon on its own will be better.

Kev.

[ February 14, 2006, 04:30 PM: Message edited by: Kevin Faulkner ]

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 14, 2006 03:44 AM

Kev,

I have used the wipes on the car and it runs a treat now [Big Grin]

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 14, 2006 04:30 PM

Thats just typical of you Tony! [Big Grin]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 15, 2006 03:50 AM

Kev,

Its true. Since using the wipes I have had no problem with it going through the gate [Big Grin]

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 15, 2006 07:10 AM

But do you use it on your wheels [Big Grin]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Paul Adsett
Film God

Posts: 5003
From: USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted February 15, 2006 09:24 AM

Tony,
Try using it on your wife. You will find she does'nt chatter nearly as much! [Big Grin]

--------------------
The best of all worlds- 8mm, super 8mm, 9.5mm, and HD Digital Projection,
Elmo GS1200 f1.0 2-blade
Eumig S938 Stereo f1.0 Ektar
Panasonic PT-AE4000U digital pj

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