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Topic: elmo gs1200 slow running

Andy Oliver
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Croydon, Surrey
Registered: Apr 2006

posted April 20, 2006 01:18 PM

Hello all this is my first post and i already seeking advice. I have just picked up an elmo gs1200, believed to have been unused for approx ten years. When running the projector, sometimes it will run at the correct selected speed. But other times it will run slow, approx 10fps, the image becomes very flickery. Another concern is, when the projector is running at the correct speed and the lamp is at full brightness, my bauer T610s light output is much greater than the elmo. The elmo has a f1.1 lens, 200w 24v lamp. Is the bauer a brighter machine?. Can the intermitten slow running be repaired? I have not yet purchased the gs1200, just testing the machine before negotiating a price.
Any advice would be greatly appreciated.

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Jean-Marc Toussaint
Film God

Posts: 2392
From: France
Registered: Oct 2004

posted April 20, 2006 02:24 PM

Hi Andy and welcome to the forum.
We have some real GS1200 experts on board who will probably give you some technical advices.
But, for starters, have you thoroughly cleaned and lubed all parts? Checked the belts? Is the lamp new or old? Remember that Elmo lenses are slightly "yellower" than the lenses (Isco or Schneider) fitted on Bauers, thus the illusion of a darker image.

--------------------
The Grindcave Cinema Website

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 20, 2006 02:38 PM

Hi,

Yes we do have some really great Elmo people on here-Bill Parsons, Ugo and Kev to name but 3!

Might be worth ensuring the switches are operated a good few times back and forth especially the 18/24fps switch and the speed control knob since if it has stood idle it could be a connection issue. It might also be one of the relays that controls the motor-I had one that stuck a bit to start with and a few taps later it has been fine. Really one for the Elmo boys though....

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Tony

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Andy Oliver
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Croydon, Surrey
Registered: Apr 2006

posted April 21, 2006 05:40 PM

Hello, thank you kindly for the replies, projector has been behaving itself and running the correct speed for the past two days now. The comment about the lens colour balance is 100% accurate thanks for the info. Tonight i change the lamp for the 2nd time, again for a new but old thorn lamp, the light output is worse than even the noris 342!!. Then, i found another spare lamp that came with the projector, this time a fuji 24v 200w ejl lamp. Fitted the fuji lamp into the projector and switched on, Wow, the difference in light ouput is amazing. A nice and bright picture at last, think i need to purchase some new lamps, any recommendations?? Can i get a schneider f1.1 to fit an elmo?
Please can anyone advise me what a reasonable price is for an elmo gs1200 dating from 1978.
Thanks again.

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 22, 2006 10:07 AM

Hi Andy,

Welcome.

Costs for GS's have started to fall over this last year and I suspect that it's because so many of them have now found their way out of lofts and cupboards after being put away for so long. Also the number of film collectors has declined as more have moved over to the dreaded video.

I would say that a mint condition GS of the early version would be about £600 - £800.

The problems you saw with that GS are quite common for a machine which has not been used for many years. It was probably as Tony said down to the switches and after some use they tend to clean themselves which then clears these problems. The 18/24 FPS switch is notorious for this as is the ESS switch. A few dozen operations and they work ok once more.

The lamps do vary and especialy amongst the EJL lamps. Some makes of EJL have an upright filament (stands upright within the lamp) and others have a filament which goes accross the lamp rom side to side. I have found th sideways accross filament seems to give the best and highest light output in the GS. Dont forget the EJL was designed for 16mm film gates. While I'm on this subject let me just say once more that it is foolhardy to use the ELC 24V 250W lamp. It puts a strain on the machines transformer and can lead to the transformer burning out. Also the ELC needs another 2 amps which the transformer cant supply with the result that you get a lower voltage at the lamp. Lower voltage = less watts. Basically you dont gain anything except maybe a damaged GS. This was maybe a risk people were willing to take years ago when spares were available but I certainly wouldnt do it now.

Yes you can put a Schneider in the GS. I have one in my GS Xenon. What you are looking for is a 28mm barrel Schneider preferably the flat barrel type. You can then obtain a converter sleeve from Classic Home Cinema which will take this lens and allow you to use it on any of the Elmo range of machines.

Keep your eyes open on eBay as they do crop up on there form time to time.

Hope this has helped, Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted April 22, 2006 10:37 AM

Allow me to slightly derail this thread by going off-topic with a question about the EJL lamp ... [Big Grin]

... but wouldn't it somehow be possible to use a lens between the lamp and the super-8 film gate to focus the light onto the gate even though it was originally designed for a 16mm gate? I'm thinking that maybe the heat glass mounted in the black lamp housing could be replaced with some sort of condenser lens (which of course would also have to be heatproof, but you get the idea)... Has anyone ever thought of that, and if yes, why not?

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Andy Oliver
Film Handler

Posts: 55
From: Croydon, Surrey
Registered: Apr 2006

posted April 22, 2006 01:53 PM

Thanks, two more questions are drive belts still available for the GS? and, are the correct lamps still available, if so who supplies them.
Again Many Thanks

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 22, 2006 04:08 PM

Andy, The ESC lamp fpr the GS is no longer available. You do sometimes see them on Ebay so once again keep your eyes open. In the past I have found the Philips & Osram EJL's work very well in the GS.

Jan, Thats an interesting thought. We will leave it to Mr Professor Bister to try this one out for us once you have your GS [Wink]

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Jan Bister
Darth 8mm

Posts: 2629
From: Ohio, USA
Registered: Jan 2005

posted April 22, 2006 06:47 PM

Who needs a GS? I'll just mod my ST with an external 24V/200W transformer [Big Grin]

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Call me Phoenix. *dusts off the ashes*

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 23, 2006 05:51 AM

Yes you can do that but be carefull about the extra heat on the gate. In the GS some of the airflow is directed onto the gate area as otherwise it would get quite hot and give you focus problems etc.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Tony Milman
Phenomenal Film Handler

Posts: 1336
From: United Kingdom
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 23, 2006 06:35 AM

Would one of those small fans that are used to cool PC's be a help in this situation?

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Tony

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Kevin Faulkner
Film God

Posts: 4071
From: Essex UK
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 23, 2006 08:59 AM

Thats possible but really it needs to be directed onto the gate area to stop the metal work from expanding too much under the added heat. This would cause shifting focus problems etc.

Kev.

--------------------
GS1200 Xenon with Elmo 1.0...great combo along with a 16-CL Xenon for that super bright white light.

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Mark Todd
Film God

Posts: 3846
From: UK
Registered: Aug 2003

posted April 23, 2006 09:32 AM

On the st1200 if the heat glass is in still it should be fine as all of the heat goes up and out anyway.
Always amazes me how many have the 150 lamp and no fan onto it at all.
I`ve noticed some like that with the 100 watter can`t cope with a xenopoht 100 watt with the extra heat, many the gate gets really hot, I once had a eumig 934 melted bits on the side cover with a xenophot in and a fuji that the gate got stinking hot so it affected the picture, ouch!!!!!
Best Mark.

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John Whittle
Jedi Master Film Handler

Posts: 791
From: Northridge, CA USA
Registered: Jun 2003

posted April 24, 2006 04:58 PM

quote:
but wouldn't it somehow be possible to use a lens between the lamp and the super-8 film gate to focus the light onto the gate even though it was originally designed for a 16mm gate?

The problem with this set up is the lamp was desinged for an aperture width of .380 in and a mounting distance of 2 inches. That's what the reflector mirror was designed for.

Putting other optics in the path and doing a re-focus would probably mean mounting the lamp futher back (a lens at the 2 inch mark and then from there to the super 8 gate) and the resulting loss of lumens from the additional optic might outweigh the gain in refocusing.

When the EJL/ELC style family of lamps came out, the lamp companies were just starting to use computer design and the 24 volt lamp put out as much light as the 1000 watt lamp it replaced which wasted lots of light with an external reflector and external condensor lenses.

John

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